Cheaper Vacuum Grease

Every fusor and fusion system seems to need a vacuum. This area is for detailed discussion of vacuum systems, materials, gauging, etc. related to fusor or fusion research.
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ian_krase
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Cheaper Vacuum Grease

Post by ian_krase »

As far as I can tell, there are two real options for vacuum grease: the Dow Corning silicone in the turquoise tube (not too expensive) and Apiezon hydrocarbons (pretty costly though nothing like fluorocarbons).

And silicone is not much liked and tends to get everywhere.

I've heard about making one's own vacuum grease out of beeswax and mech pump oil -- this seems pretty limited by high vapor pressure. Is it really viable, or should I just cough up the money for Apiezon?
John Futter
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Re: Cheaper Vacuum Grease

Post by John Futter »

Use the apeizon
once silicon grease has been used on a part you can never clean it well enough to weld to get a vacuum tight joint. even solder won't stick
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Richard Hull
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Re: Cheaper Vacuum Grease

Post by Richard Hull »

I have often wondered why Apiezon is so expensive. Having used both their grease and black wax, I figure there are two reasons.

1. Since they and most vacuumists know their stuff is the best there is on the market, the wise will pay for it and accept that they only get a tiny tube for big bucks.
2. Apiezon knows that a good vacuumist professional will only use such a tiny amount of grease at each event demanding it, avoiding its use, otherwise, like the plague. Even their tiny tube in the hands of such pro's, would last 20-30 years before they make another purchase. Thus, they must get their money while they can on the first pass!

No one slathers large surfaces with Apiezon grease. Slathering is a sign of poor vacuum practice and typically represents an amateur in desparation.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
ian_krase
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Re: Cheaper Vacuum Grease

Post by ian_krase »

Yes, and I have at times been that person.

(exception: packing-sealed valves and mechanical stuff that may incidentally contact the inside of a chamber.)

The other thing is that as far as I can tell, Apiezon has no competition at all, or at least none except a few very marginal vendors whose products are not readily available except to OEMs.

The other option seems to be the twin choices of Krytox or Fomblin. (Krytox seems more grease focused, Fomblin bigger in the oil market as far as I can tell). And these are PFPEs, which I call "cost-a-lot grease".

Oddly, my day job does use apiezon in slathering quantities -- but they use the kind that's only good to medium vacuum and they are lubricating mechanical sliders that don't get exposed to vacuum of any kind. I'm not sure what the point is. Seems like Super Lube might be more suitable and much cheaper.
Jerry Biehler
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Re: Cheaper Vacuum Grease

Post by Jerry Biehler »

I use Krytox UHP, inert and lasts a long time. A little tube will last you years.
ian_krase
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Re: Cheaper Vacuum Grease

Post by ian_krase »

Does it have similar chemical compatibilities as hydrocarbon?
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Re: Cheaper Vacuum Grease

Post by John Futter »

Ian
Krytox UHP is more like hydrocarbon except all the hydrogens have been replaced with flourine atoms
Jerry Biehler
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Re: Cheaper Vacuum Grease

Post by Jerry Biehler »

And its compatible with basically everything, it is pretty much completely inert, you can even use it for oxygen service.
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Nick Peskosky
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Re: Cheaper Vacuum Grease

Post by Nick Peskosky »

Paid just slightly more than this when I grabbed a similar size container of Apiezon M (excellent vapor pressure curves to 10E-9 Torr) but if you don't need industrial quantities I recommend a cursory search of ebay. I have a small 5mL vial that has been more then sufficient to disassemble and re-assemble all of my KF/LF fittings 4 times (1/2 empty now).

Link1: http://www.ebay.com/itm/APIEZON-M-High- ... XQuTNTLiHg

Link2: http://www.ebay.com/itm/APIEZON-M-HIGH- ... xy63FS6BvM
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Richard Hull
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Re: Cheaper Vacuum Grease

Post by Richard Hull »

I picked up 10 tubes of Apiezon M back in 1998 at a hamfest. The guy sold them for $1.00 per tube. I bought them all. I sold all but two for $40.00 per tube, a few years back. I am holding those back for my use. It's good stuff!

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
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Jerry Biehler
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Re: Cheaper Vacuum Grease

Post by Jerry Biehler »

If you dont have a leak you should not be using any grease. Greasing KF o-rings is really last resort.
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: Cheaper Vacuum Grease

Post by Dennis P Brown »

I so agree with Jerry Biehler; there is no place for vacuum grease in most fusors - the only exception is a temp fix to confirm the O-ring or coupling is leaking via a problem that, yes, the grease does fix - then you find out if it is the O-ring that is bad or the surface is scratched. Gaskets should seal on their own, frankly.
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