Cleaning/Repairing Edwards E2M5
- Richard Hull
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Re: Cleaning/Repairing Edwards E2M5
10 or even 15 microns is about the best one can ever hope for on a used pump. and will perform flawlessly using a diff pump or turbo. Short of a rebuild I would not expect much better. You have done the best that might be expected for a used pump. From my point of view, you are good to go for use in a real fusor. Even with the oil as is, you have a fine pump.
Richard Hull
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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- Real name: Ameen Aydan
Re: Cleaning/Repairing Edwards E2M5
Hello,
Bruce Meagher gave me his gauge to use and test and it’s giving the exact same results. 25 torr and that’s the max. My gauge reads 35 torr so I do need to calibrate slightly. Does anyone know if it is bad if I don''t calibrate? This clearly shows that there is nothing wrong with my gauge.
He did give me an intake flange but it was too big. Does anyone have one the are willing to lend me for a month or two?
These results are still using the Teflon seal. Because I got 13 micron last try then it seems that my problem is the inlet not being secure enough. I doubt that my pump would be doing something wrong if I previously got anything a good result...
An inlet should do the job
Ameen Aydan
Bruce Meagher gave me his gauge to use and test and it’s giving the exact same results. 25 torr and that’s the max. My gauge reads 35 torr so I do need to calibrate slightly. Does anyone know if it is bad if I don''t calibrate? This clearly shows that there is nothing wrong with my gauge.
He did give me an intake flange but it was too big. Does anyone have one the are willing to lend me for a month or two?
These results are still using the Teflon seal. Because I got 13 micron last try then it seems that my problem is the inlet not being secure enough. I doubt that my pump would be doing something wrong if I previously got anything a good result...
An inlet should do the job
Ameen Aydan
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Re: Cleaning/Repairing Edwards E2M5
Get rid of the teflon tape
use loctite 569 Hydrulic sealant (thickliquid) or Loctite 290 (superwickin)
Teflon tape is for plumbing of water systems not high vacuum
use loctite 569 Hydrulic sealant (thickliquid) or Loctite 290 (superwickin)
Teflon tape is for plumbing of water systems not high vacuum
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Re: Cleaning/Repairing Edwards E2M5
Would JB weld do the same?
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Re: Cleaning/Repairing Edwards E2M5
Can you give us a pic of what you plan to connect to what?
I love JB Weld for connecting things that have vacuum down to 1 micron or a bit less. But where I have used it is to permanently connect pieces. It is not wise for something threaded you may ever want to unscrew.
Last discussed, I think it was sealing threads. Not a job for JB Weld unless you never want the option to undo it.
Assuming you are still trying to evaluate your pump's capability, give us that pic of how you will connect pump to your gauge.
I love JB Weld for connecting things that have vacuum down to 1 micron or a bit less. But where I have used it is to permanently connect pieces. It is not wise for something threaded you may ever want to unscrew.
Last discussed, I think it was sealing threads. Not a job for JB Weld unless you never want the option to undo it.
Assuming you are still trying to evaluate your pump's capability, give us that pic of how you will connect pump to your gauge.
Rex Allers
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Re: Cleaning/Repairing Edwards E2M5
Sorry it's been such a long time but I'm finally back to it!
So I decided that the pump I got was most likely just defective. Though I managed to reach 13 micron at one point, I don't think that's going to happen again....
I would want to repair it but I don't have the patience or time to do such a thing. I would need to get oil and a whole bunch of parts that I'm simply not prepared to spend my time on finding.
Below I have attached pictures of the fitting. I connect my gauge directly to the adapter. That way I get an accurate read out.
I choose to purchase a new pump to see if I get any luck. My new pump seems to have the same issue. On the inside, the seller says that its in perfect condition but the outside is just pretty dirty. In the picture you can see the readout of what I got on the new pump. The best I managed to get was about 90 microns though.
At this point I give up. I have two broken pumps that have put a sizable hole in my pocket so I'm just going to resell them and see what I can get.
Should I just JB weld the adapter to my new pump and see what the reading gives me? I don't imagine doing so will affect the pumps performance. And at this point the pump is done for so this little adjustment wont make a difference in my eyes.
Link to the pictures: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
Ameen Aydan
So I decided that the pump I got was most likely just defective. Though I managed to reach 13 micron at one point, I don't think that's going to happen again....
I would want to repair it but I don't have the patience or time to do such a thing. I would need to get oil and a whole bunch of parts that I'm simply not prepared to spend my time on finding.
Below I have attached pictures of the fitting. I connect my gauge directly to the adapter. That way I get an accurate read out.
I choose to purchase a new pump to see if I get any luck. My new pump seems to have the same issue. On the inside, the seller says that its in perfect condition but the outside is just pretty dirty. In the picture you can see the readout of what I got on the new pump. The best I managed to get was about 90 microns though.
At this point I give up. I have two broken pumps that have put a sizable hole in my pocket so I'm just going to resell them and see what I can get.
Should I just JB weld the adapter to my new pump and see what the reading gives me? I don't imagine doing so will affect the pumps performance. And at this point the pump is done for so this little adjustment wont make a difference in my eyes.
Link to the pictures: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
Ameen Aydan
- Rich Feldman
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- Real name: Rich Feldman
- Location: Santa Clara County, CA, USA
Re: Cleaning/Repairing Edwards E2M5
Go back and read what Richard Hull said.
Why are you saying 25 micron ultimate pressure means the first pump is no good?
Suppose you could get below 10 microns with a brand new pump, and some luck.
Would that make a difference in your fusor project?
Why are you saying 25 micron ultimate pressure means the first pump is no good?
Suppose you could get below 10 microns with a brand new pump, and some luck.
Would that make a difference in your fusor project?
All models are wrong; some models are useful. -- George Box
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Re: Cleaning/Repairing Edwards E2M5
Hello,
Just updating everyone who might read this thread. I finally just traded the two pumps for an Alcatel 2002. It works perfectly fine, reaches 5 microns on the gauge and has very minimal noise. I got those two pump together for $350 cad so I basically paid $350 for the Alcatel. On the high side for the pump I got but at least I have all my fusor components and I can begin construction.
Will update with photos soon
Thanks for the help all,
AA
Just updating everyone who might read this thread. I finally just traded the two pumps for an Alcatel 2002. It works perfectly fine, reaches 5 microns on the gauge and has very minimal noise. I got those two pump together for $350 cad so I basically paid $350 for the Alcatel. On the high side for the pump I got but at least I have all my fusor components and I can begin construction.
Will update with photos soon
Thanks for the help all,
AA
Re: Cleaning/Repairing Edwards E2M5
Hi all!
I came here because I also own an E2M5 vacuum pump and found this nice informative thread.
Same model that I have and in need for maintenance.
I found my pump some years ago for 50€ and never really used it since.
The purpose was to repair water damaged PCB or electronic devices and laminating resins under vacuum. Always good to have vacuum capability in your workshop I thought…
The problem is that my pump show heavy corrosion. The oil is very brown whenever I change the oil. A rusted crust is visible through the glass and when I look into the oil cap opening I get nightmares.
However the pump runs and after some hours of runtime it achieved 30 microns peak vacuum.
It started around 200 microns with new oil and slowly got better.
The project of the week is to install a split climate system to my garage. To put it into operation the proper way I need good vacuum of course.
As a gauge I use a digital TESTO 552 device. Cheap and not as scientific as the equipment from the lab but in my view sufficient for 10-3 Torr vacuum area.
Before I filled new oil into the pump unfortunately I did a mistake I think.
I filled the oil compartement with a cleaning solution that is somehow partly alcoholic or at least hydrophile. I thought it was mineral based cleaning solution but it was not.
I turned the pump on in the morning and after 3 rotations it seized and stopped turning.
Oh Oh not good.
What do you guys think I should do?
Detach Motor and try manually and maybe backwards?
Or time for disassembly now?
I came here because I also own an E2M5 vacuum pump and found this nice informative thread.
Same model that I have and in need for maintenance.
I found my pump some years ago for 50€ and never really used it since.
The purpose was to repair water damaged PCB or electronic devices and laminating resins under vacuum. Always good to have vacuum capability in your workshop I thought…
The problem is that my pump show heavy corrosion. The oil is very brown whenever I change the oil. A rusted crust is visible through the glass and when I look into the oil cap opening I get nightmares.
However the pump runs and after some hours of runtime it achieved 30 microns peak vacuum.
It started around 200 microns with new oil and slowly got better.
The project of the week is to install a split climate system to my garage. To put it into operation the proper way I need good vacuum of course.
As a gauge I use a digital TESTO 552 device. Cheap and not as scientific as the equipment from the lab but in my view sufficient for 10-3 Torr vacuum area.
Before I filled new oil into the pump unfortunately I did a mistake I think.
I filled the oil compartement with a cleaning solution that is somehow partly alcoholic or at least hydrophile. I thought it was mineral based cleaning solution but it was not.
I turned the pump on in the morning and after 3 rotations it seized and stopped turning.
Oh Oh not good.
What do you guys think I should do?
Detach Motor and try manually and maybe backwards?
Or time for disassembly now?
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- Real name: Ameen Aydan
Re: Cleaning/Repairing Edwards E2M5
I know this is a late reply, but at this point, you have nothing to lose with opening up the pump and completely disassembling it. IMO, a cleaning oil for these kinds of issues (including mine) is mostly just... hopeless.
Open the pump and disassemble everything, down to the pump vanes. Clean what you can within reason and put some fresh oil in there. I'm not sure if there are any single-use components you'd need to replace after opening everything. Honestly, though, it's nothing a little grease and a prayer can't fix. Please don't bother with an overhaul kit unless you're sure it's worth it.
You can find exploded diagrams for this pump almost anywhere.
Please update if you get the chance!
Open the pump and disassemble everything, down to the pump vanes. Clean what you can within reason and put some fresh oil in there. I'm not sure if there are any single-use components you'd need to replace after opening everything. Honestly, though, it's nothing a little grease and a prayer can't fix. Please don't bother with an overhaul kit unless you're sure it's worth it.
You can find exploded diagrams for this pump almost anywhere.
Please update if you get the chance!
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- Real name: Oscar Anderson
Re: Cleaning/Repairing Edwards E2M5
I'd hold off tearing it down completely. Aligning vane pumps can be something of a headache. Just dismantling and cleaning it is, well, a project, and you probably won't find anything at all.
It would, in general, take quite a lot to make a pump seize in 3 revolutions. Even running without any oil at all.
In general, I don't like putting anything other than vacuum pump oil into a pump. It's really difficult to get everything out of a pump - there's always a little left in there, and if it has a very high vapor pressure, you can kiss your ultimate pressure goodbye.
The inside of your pump looks like just about every rotary vane pump I see at surplus, including both of my Welch pumps. Odds are good that most of the crud is in the oil tank and not inside the pump itself. It's not good, but it's typical. Most of these pumps have hard lives, and a lot of them get little to no maintenance. Over time, with use and oil changes, it will clean up.
Removing the motor is fairly low risk on most pumps, and this will allow you to do two things. First, you can ascertain whether this is a pump issue or a motor issue. Second, it gives you some access to try and turn the pump by hand. You may need to make something that will mate with the shaft coupling to do this, however.
If you really can't get it to turn, then start looking at tearing it down, but again, I have a very hard time that a pump actually seized in 3 revolutions.
Tearing these things down is borderline on being worth it. You can pick up pumps that aren't destroyed for a couple hundred bucks (sometimes a lot less). If you tear it down, you're probably going to need to buy a minor rebuild kit (mostly gaskets and possibly a shaft seal) at a minimum, and you're going to spend the better part of a day (possibly two) doing it.
It would, in general, take quite a lot to make a pump seize in 3 revolutions. Even running without any oil at all.
In general, I don't like putting anything other than vacuum pump oil into a pump. It's really difficult to get everything out of a pump - there's always a little left in there, and if it has a very high vapor pressure, you can kiss your ultimate pressure goodbye.
The inside of your pump looks like just about every rotary vane pump I see at surplus, including both of my Welch pumps. Odds are good that most of the crud is in the oil tank and not inside the pump itself. It's not good, but it's typical. Most of these pumps have hard lives, and a lot of them get little to no maintenance. Over time, with use and oil changes, it will clean up.
Removing the motor is fairly low risk on most pumps, and this will allow you to do two things. First, you can ascertain whether this is a pump issue or a motor issue. Second, it gives you some access to try and turn the pump by hand. You may need to make something that will mate with the shaft coupling to do this, however.
If you really can't get it to turn, then start looking at tearing it down, but again, I have a very hard time that a pump actually seized in 3 revolutions.
Tearing these things down is borderline on being worth it. You can pick up pumps that aren't destroyed for a couple hundred bucks (sometimes a lot less). If you tear it down, you're probably going to need to buy a minor rebuild kit (mostly gaskets and possibly a shaft seal) at a minimum, and you're going to spend the better part of a day (possibly two) doing it.