TCP 121 schematic
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TCP 121 schematic
Hi All,
my TCP121 turbo controller has a problem, whenever I turn it on, the pump starts to spin, but it takes a long time, way too long, so the controller turns off, even if I set the timer to max.
It's not the pump, I tried with another TCP121, and the pump works fine.
I've already replaced the power transistors, but that didn't help.
Does anyone here have a complete schematic of the TCP121? I do have an old manual with some more info than recent manuals, but I don't have a complete schematic diagram.
Thanks.
-Jeroen.
my TCP121 turbo controller has a problem, whenever I turn it on, the pump starts to spin, but it takes a long time, way too long, so the controller turns off, even if I set the timer to max.
It's not the pump, I tried with another TCP121, and the pump works fine.
I've already replaced the power transistors, but that didn't help.
Does anyone here have a complete schematic of the TCP121? I do have an old manual with some more info than recent manuals, but I don't have a complete schematic diagram.
Thanks.
-Jeroen.
- Chris Bradley
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Re: TCP 121 schematic
Have you bothered to type 'TCP 121 manual' into the search option?
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Re: TCP 121 schematic
Chris, I have the manial, it can be found on the net in seconds.
I'm looking for the schematic, I know there are different versions of the TCP 121, but any schematic of a TCP 121 would save me a lot of time.
I'm looking for the schematic, I know there are different versions of the TCP 121, but any schematic of a TCP 121 would save me a lot of time.
Re: TCP 121 schematic
Jeroen -
Not sure if this is all you'll need, but check here:
Pfeiffer Vacuum TCP 120 121 Manual pdf free ebook download from ...
http://ebookbrowse.com/pfeiffer-vacuum- ... -pdf-d2531...
Got it from Google search.....
Dave Cooper
Not sure if this is all you'll need, but check here:
Pfeiffer Vacuum TCP 120 121 Manual pdf free ebook download from ...
http://ebookbrowse.com/pfeiffer-vacuum- ... -pdf-d2531...
Got it from Google search.....
Dave Cooper
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Re: TCP 121 schematic
Thanks Dave,
The complete schematic is not in the manual, I contacted Pfeiffer and they don't have the schematic, which probably means that they don't want any cheap copies of their equipment on the market, which is understandable.
-Jeroen.
The complete schematic is not in the manual, I contacted Pfeiffer and they don't have the schematic, which probably means that they don't want any cheap copies of their equipment on the market, which is understandable.
-Jeroen.
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Re: TCP 121 schematic
Fellows
I knew I had it! As always, looking for A popped out Z...
Find the rest of the manual...the schematics.
Regards
Roberto
I knew I had it! As always, looking for A popped out Z...
Find the rest of the manual...the schematics.
Regards
Roberto
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Re: TCP 121 schematic
That is fantastic! Thanks.
Even someone I know who works for Pfeiffer was unable to find the schematic!
Even someone I know who works for Pfeiffer was unable to find the schematic!
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Re: TCP 121 schematic
Hi Jeroen
If you are skillful enough to put it in a better way into the Files forum, I will appreciate it.
Regards
Roberto
If you are skillful enough to put it in a better way into the Files forum, I will appreciate it.
Regards
Roberto
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Re: TCP 121 schematic
Roberto, I will do that, thanks a lot!
I will also find a way to control the pump speed with the TCP121.
I will also find a way to control the pump speed with the TCP121.
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Re: TCP 121 schematic
My pleasure Jeroen
What could be the purpose of controlling the speed?
As far as I understand, faster the blades, better the vacuum.
Roberto
What could be the purpose of controlling the speed?
As far as I understand, faster the blades, better the vacuum.
Roberto
- Chris Bradley
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Re: TCP 121 schematic
...to control the pressure without, or additional to, using a throttle.
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Re: TCP 121 schematic
I have been experimenting with controlling the speed by using the signal of the my PKR250 full range gauge to switch the pump on and of (there is an external input on the TCP121 for that).
It makes a very good pressure control system.
The next step is to use the venting valve input of my TPH270 as a deuterium feed without the need to dry the deuterium, the compression ratio for D2O is much better than that for D2, so when using the venting valve as an input, the D2O will be pumped out, and the D2 will enter the chamber, but at full speed the pump will pump out almost everything.
The ideal woudl be a constant D2 pressure of about 5E-5 mbar, created with my TPH270 + TCP121 setup, and connect that with a needle valve to the feed of an ion gun in my all-CF chamber (which uses TPU240 + TCP600 controller)
still a lot to do, the bearrings of my TPH270 started screaming this weekend, my QMA064 mass spectro meter head is contaminated and a factor 80 too insensitive, have to find some cheap MACOR somewhere to finish my ion guns, have to finish my CF200->CF63 reducer for connecting my smart iq spectrometer to the CF chamer... etc. etc... takes a lot of time to produce results.
It makes a very good pressure control system.
The next step is to use the venting valve input of my TPH270 as a deuterium feed without the need to dry the deuterium, the compression ratio for D2O is much better than that for D2, so when using the venting valve as an input, the D2O will be pumped out, and the D2 will enter the chamber, but at full speed the pump will pump out almost everything.
The ideal woudl be a constant D2 pressure of about 5E-5 mbar, created with my TPH270 + TCP121 setup, and connect that with a needle valve to the feed of an ion gun in my all-CF chamber (which uses TPU240 + TCP600 controller)
still a lot to do, the bearrings of my TPH270 started screaming this weekend, my QMA064 mass spectro meter head is contaminated and a factor 80 too insensitive, have to find some cheap MACOR somewhere to finish my ion guns, have to finish my CF200->CF63 reducer for connecting my smart iq spectrometer to the CF chamer... etc. etc... takes a lot of time to produce results.
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Re: TCP 121 schematic
An additional note on using the venting valve input to separate D2 en D2O:
the compression ratio can be approximated by:
K = exp( C * v * sqrt(M))
where C is a constant (when temp. is constant), v is the blade speed and M the molar mass.
K is the compression ration for 0 flow, so it's just a rough approximation for deuterium feed.
using rpm as speed unit and assuming that using the venting valve input doesn't influence the comression ratio much, K0(H2) is 2E3 at 60000rpm -> C = 9.0E-5
K(D2)/K(D2O) = exp( C * v * ( sqrt(4) - sqrt(20) ) )
Which is 1.6E-6 for v=60krpm (=max), this has to be multiplied by the ratio D2-pressure to D2O pressure at the input to get the pressure ratio of D2/D2O in the chamber.
Sounds great, but we should not have more than about 5Pa of pressure at the venting valve input. So to have 5E-5 mbar the K0 for D2 should be about 1000, which gives a v of 38krpm. (that's why I need to control the TCP121 speed)
Which gives us a K(D2)/K(D2O) of 2.1E-4, using electrolysis for D2 and hoping to keep the temperature below 40 deg.C, the D2 pressure before the needle valve is 100kPa, and the D2O vapour pressure is 7.4kPa, which gives us:
P(D2O)/P(D2) = (7.4 / 100) * 2.1E-4 = 15.6E-6
in other words, 16ppm D2O at 5E-5 mbar D2, without the need to dry the gas from electrolysis.
the compression ratio can be approximated by:
K = exp( C * v * sqrt(M))
where C is a constant (when temp. is constant), v is the blade speed and M the molar mass.
K is the compression ration for 0 flow, so it's just a rough approximation for deuterium feed.
using rpm as speed unit and assuming that using the venting valve input doesn't influence the comression ratio much, K0(H2) is 2E3 at 60000rpm -> C = 9.0E-5
K(D2)/K(D2O) = exp( C * v * ( sqrt(4) - sqrt(20) ) )
Which is 1.6E-6 for v=60krpm (=max), this has to be multiplied by the ratio D2-pressure to D2O pressure at the input to get the pressure ratio of D2/D2O in the chamber.
Sounds great, but we should not have more than about 5Pa of pressure at the venting valve input. So to have 5E-5 mbar the K0 for D2 should be about 1000, which gives a v of 38krpm. (that's why I need to control the TCP121 speed)
Which gives us a K(D2)/K(D2O) of 2.1E-4, using electrolysis for D2 and hoping to keep the temperature below 40 deg.C, the D2 pressure before the needle valve is 100kPa, and the D2O vapour pressure is 7.4kPa, which gives us:
P(D2O)/P(D2) = (7.4 / 100) * 2.1E-4 = 15.6E-6
in other words, 16ppm D2O at 5E-5 mbar D2, without the need to dry the gas from electrolysis.
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Re: TCP 121 schematic
Thanks Chris and Jeroen, understood.
Jeroen,
What sizes and shapes are you looking for in macor ceramics?
I have some pieces.
Roberto
Jeroen,
What sizes and shapes are you looking for in macor ceramics?
I have some pieces.
Roberto
Re: TCP 121 schematic
@Roberto Ferrari: Thank you very much for sharing the schematic!
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Re: TCP 121 schematic
Dear Roberto,
Thank you for the extremely valuable schematic. A treasure trove for someone with a pump and no controller.
It becomes apparent that all of the motor control is a tiny part of the circuit with 3 ICs and 4 transistors, that and a power supply should be enough for an advanced hobbyist to spin up a pump.
The rest is monitoring, voltage control and safety - which may be optional for a person trying to 'just make the pump spin' without the original $$$ controller. For long term use the safety stuff can be handled by an Arduino at 1/10 of the footprint and complexity of the factory controller.
I'll attempt to recreate the circuit and will share the results.
Thank you for the extremely valuable schematic. A treasure trove for someone with a pump and no controller.
It becomes apparent that all of the motor control is a tiny part of the circuit with 3 ICs and 4 transistors, that and a power supply should be enough for an advanced hobbyist to spin up a pump.
The rest is monitoring, voltage control and safety - which may be optional for a person trying to 'just make the pump spin' without the original $$$ controller. For long term use the safety stuff can be handled by an Arduino at 1/10 of the footprint and complexity of the factory controller.
I'll attempt to recreate the circuit and will share the results.