Ask a question, is a high voltage will damage the equipment

[Yan Rui]

I saw a lot of equipment forum is full of metal, and the external electric voltage above 15kV, in order to ensure the safety, high voltage anode can also access the ground.
I do not understand the electricity, but I know there is a lot of low voltage electrical equipment is also connected to the nuclear reactor, usually the voltage at AC120v~220V. For example, vacuum table or electric and mechanical pump.
I didn't want to know, these electric equipment is how to avoid the high voltage electrical failure.
There is a problem I don't understand, is a single high voltage anode grounding, will not lead to high voltage to reduce nuclear fusion.
I hope someone can help me to answer this question, thank you very much!!


Yan Rui

[Dennis P Brown]

Yan Rui, your questions indicates you do not understand high voltage systems as applied to fusors - you need to read the archives here; you have a very high voltage and extremely dangerous power supply (the one you showed on another thread that uses a number of fly-back transformers. )

That is not the type of power supply one uses without knowledge - I really believe you need to stop and learn more on power supplies and electrical systems.

Maybe consider using a neon sign transformer first - those are far safer and allow some errors that won't cause a dangerous short/fire/explosion or cause you to be killed by electrocution. The fact your vacuum is not acceptable (low enough) and will most likely cause the high voltage supply to short out concerns me. Your chamber is not usable for a 30 KV power supply that has that much power nor do you even know how to operate the diffusion pump properly. Things like understanding how to safely ground your chamber, use correct high voltage cables and vacuum feed through and ... well, your posts do not demonstrate to me that you are properly addressing these critical issues.

Again, you really need to stop all work (especially using that high voltage power supply) and read the sections on this forum on these issues.

[Yan Rui]

Yan Rui, your questions indicates you do not understand high voltage systems as applied to fusors - you need to read the archives here; you have a very high voltage and extremely dangerous power supply (the one you showed on another thread that uses a number of fly-back transformers. )

That is not the type of power supply one uses without knowledge - I really believe you need to stop and learn more on power supplies and electrical systems.

Maybe consider using a neon sign transformer first - those are far safer and allow some errors that won't cause a dangerous short/fire/explosion or cause you to be killed by electrocution. The fact your vacuum is not acceptable (low enough) and will most likely cause the high voltage supply to short out concerns me. Your chamber is not usable for a 30 KV power supply that has that much power nor do you even know how to operate the diffusion pump properly. Things like understanding how to safely ground your chamber, use correct high voltage cables and vacuum feed through and ... well, your posts do not demonstrate to me that you are properly addressing these critical issues.

Again, you really need to stop all work (especially using that high voltage power supply) and read the sections on this forum on these issues.

Thank you for your help.
I also realize that the diffusion pump and did not play its due role, so are in contact with experienced staff to help me analyze problems.
As you said, is the lack of my knowledge, my question is very simple, although I do not understand its principle.
I have stopped the plan, until I can get my lack of knowledge of power system.
I know, life is very important, not because of my ignorance and compulsion accident.

Thank you again for your advice, thank you!!

Yan Rui

[Dennis P Brown]

Good to stop and learn! Safety is critical and with the high voltage systems real fusors use requires great caution.

One of the most important issues to address is grounding of all equipment. That means you need a true "Earth" ground.

The "center" ground found on most American outlets (I assume China has a similar system) needs to be checked that they are really working (also, check that the "polarity of the outlet is correct, too); but that "center ground" cannot be used for the ultra high voltage found in a real fusor (making that center line ground handle any high voltage, much less the 30 kV is, in of its self, a danger for two main reasons; first, that low voltage ground wire was NEVER intended to handle voltages that high which would allow that potentially lethal voltage to jump to other lines/even burn out the line - that is, cause a fire in the walls! And second, allowing such high voltage/power to connect with that grounding line and possibly other lines could severely endanger other people that share that same grid.)

This also brings up the dangers of x-rays in a non-metal chamber and that your first priority is to protect people around you. Understanding these issues is critical for that purpose.

So check the FAQ's on these topics, read, and only then ask questions to clarify the information on this subject located in the archives - this will not only address the question you have about the lower voltage secondary power systems (the 120 and 220 volt AC equipment ) but the reason a metal outer case on a fusor (properly grounded!) will actually better protect you from the dangers of the fusor's high voltage. Further, and this applies to many people who use this forum - use the internet and google. There are vast arrays of knowledge on these very subjects - for instance, try googling about the wall outlet center ground - you will discover a huge body of easy to read and understand sources of information on this subject. Such an elementary questions on such a subject should be researched using other sources than this forum.

Again relative to your 120/220 voltage question - this is, in fact, the best place to start in understanding real electoral safety - the idea of grounds and proper grounding of electrical equipment is issue #1 for a fusor, in my opinion.

Aside: this does not mean you need to stop all work - getting the vacuum system working with a good gauge and leak checking a system while learning about good vacuum techniques is a good thing to do as you read and learn about electrical safety.

[Yan Rui]

Good to stop and learn! Safety is critical and with the high voltage systems real fusors use requires great caution.

One of the most important issues to address is grounding of all equipment. That means you need a true "Earth" ground.

The "center" ground found on most American outlets (I assume China has a similar system) needs to be checked that they are really working (also, check that the "polarity of the outlet is correct, too); but that "center ground" cannot be used for the ultra high voltage found in a real fusor (making that center line ground handle any high voltage, much less the 30 kV is, in of its self, a danger for two main reasons; first, that low voltage ground wire was NEVER intended to handle voltages that high which would allow that potentially lethal voltage to jump to other lines/even burn out the line - that is, cause a fire in the walls! And second, allowing such high voltage/power to connect with that grounding line and possibly other lines could severely endanger other people that share that same grid.)

This also brings up the dangers of x-rays in a non-metal chamber and that your first priority is to protect people around you. Understanding these issues is critical for that purpose.

So check the FAQ's on these topics, read, and only then ask questions to clarify the information on this subject located in the archives - this will not only address the question you have about the lower voltage secondary power systems (the 120 and 220 volt AC equipment ) but the reason a metal outer case on a fusor (properly grounded!) will actually better protect you from the dangers of the fusor's high voltage. Further, and this applies to many people who use this forum - use the internet and google. There are vast arrays of knowledge on these very subjects - for instance, try googling about the wall outlet center ground - you will discover a huge body of easy to read and understand sources of information on this subject. Such an elementary questions on such a subject should be researched using other sources than this forum.

Again relative to your 120/220 voltage question - this is, in fact, the best place to start in understanding real electoral safety - the idea of grounds and proper grounding of electrical equipment is issue #1 for a fusor, in my opinion.

Aside: this does not mean you need to stop all work - getting the vacuum system working with a good gauge and leak checking a system while learning about good vacuum techniques is a good thing to do as you read and learn about electrical safety.

Thank you for your help！

Today I consulted several for high-voltage understanding people, they and I explained the principle about high-pressure safety.
I understand that all electrical equipment and metal equipments must be connected together and then access the ground with copper wire.
This approach is to prevent the voltage difference.
Access to underground into the use of copper pipe ground about 3 meters.
This standard is to prevent lightning design, high voltage transformer for should be enough, after all, the power of the transformer is not high.
For facilities problems you mentioned below, I think about the solution.
My job is a municipal engineering staff, we have some ultrasonic underground testing equipment, can I borrow over safety detection of underground facilities, underground facilities if not, I will anode circuit access underground.
Did not know that such measures are reasonable, or what areas need attention. Thank you very much.
I drew a sketch, it is I redesigned the vacuum chamber of the drawings, I probably marked a moment.
In fact, I stop the program that is not very clear, I mean not to understand. I will not be any equipment power.
I also visited the vacuum technology professionals, they do the neon lamp, also gave me a lot of knowledge.
I am going to build a qualified vacuum chamber. At the same time, I also want to express their ideas, let everybody to point out problems.
However, vacuum problem I put in another post.
By the way, our country to the network has some limitations, I cannot obtain resources from the YouTube and Google, which makes me very helpless...

Thank you again for your help.
I hope you can share your experiences, thank you!

Yan Rui

[Dennis P Brown]

Getting a reliable earth ground by placing a rod into the ground is not always successful or reliable - if you do not reach the "ground water level", it may not be of any value. Read about this in books that cover amateur Radio work. For instance, I have no idea how to test and confirm that any given ground will provide enough current draw to be usable. Maybe someone here knows a good test.Here is a site that explains this in more detail (including how to do it.) Don't know if you can view this site or not but here it is:

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/groun ... nce-16224/

Others here can comment on your drawing but making sure the fusor chamber has a good earth ground is important for both your safety and good fusor operation, as well.

One comment on your chamber design - a control valve between the diffusion pump (DP) and chamber, as shown in your drawing, is important. What I suggest - depending on cost and difficulty - is make the opening between this valve/DP and the chamber as large as possible. This will increase both pumping speed and over all system flexibility - I'd suggest no smaller than a KF 40 size but 60 or even larger would be better still. Of course, cost of these valves and connectors can get large so a compromise (for most of us!) often must be made.

[Yan Rui]

Getting a reliable earth ground by placing a rod into the ground is not always successful or reliable - if you do not reach the "ground water level", it may not be of any value. Read about this in books that cover amateur Radio work. For instance, I have no idea how to test and confirm that any given ground will provide enough current draw to be usable. Maybe someone here knows a good test.Here is a site that explains this in more detail (including how to do it.) Don't know if you can view this site or not but here it is:

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/groun ... nce-16224/

Others here can comment on your drawing but making sure the fusor chamber has a good earth ground is important for both your safety and good fusor operation, as well.

One comment on your chamber design - a control valve between the diffusion pump (DP) and chamber, as shown in your drawing, is important. What I suggest - depending on cost and difficulty - is make the opening between this valve/DP and the chamber as large as possible. This will increase both pumping speed and over all system flexibility - I'd suggest no smaller than a KF 40 size but 60 or even larger would be better still. Of course, cost of these valves and connectors can get large so a compromise (for most of us!) often must be made.

Thanks for the advice

But because of my country, I can't open the Webpage.
I had asked to do some construction workers lightning rod design, they suggest that can be connected to the drainage pipe or water supply pipeline.
But I think this method for other people too dangerous. Or say is irresponsible.
I think, can dig a pit in the ground, and then followed by saline water for a period of time as the earth?
Thank you.

Yan Rui

[Dennis P Brown]

A drain pipe is worthless. Water pipes can work but could pose a small danger to other people.

To test your idea for an earth ground, just drive two metal stakes into the ground deep enough to reach the permanently moist area of ground (near the top of the local water table. Better still to reach the ground water) The rods should have - and I am completely guessing here - a separation of about half a meter (but must be were you will ground.) Then measure the resistance between the two rods. If you have just a few ohms or less (if 0.2 ohm or less is best) between them, the ground will work well for 30 kilo-volts (assuming you have a grounding wire of great enough gauge to handle the current/power load.) I do not know if this is possible (to run such a wire) but remember, this wire WILL be the ground for your fusor and its very high voltage power supply and must be insulated to handle that voltage.

[Jack Williams]

In a functioning fusor, very little current will run through the center ground, right? I thought most of it will flow in the circuit between the transformer and fusor. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression the ground connection simply served to make you and the fusor shell electrically common so that if there was break in the return path from the fusor to the transformer you couldn't get shocked.

Am I totally off my mark?

[Richard Hull]

There will, hopefully, never be current flowing through the electrical ground connection. The only current should be through the two wires going to the fusor from the power supply. True, one wire will be grounded, but no current will flow to or through the mains electrical ground system.

Richard Hull

[Charles Vorbach]

In that case, then wouldn't it be fine to use your house's center ground if it complies with the National Electric Code's 25 ohms or less.

It seems to me the grounding wire has one of the following states .

1. No, current flows through it because the circuit to the transformer is closed.

2. The circuit to the transformer is broken, current flows through center ground to earth. If your center ground has 100 ohms of resistance to ground and a current of 20 mA is flowing, a maximum of 2 volt of potential is to be gained by jumping to another wire. If your outlet has a GFCI it will detect this ground fault and trip.

It seems to me the center ground is fine for 100+ kv fusors since it was designed for lightening strikes with whole lot more voltage. Am I wrong?

[Charles Vorbach]

Sorry for repeating myself.

[John Futter]

Charles
The mains ground connection is a safety earth and a reference point for the applied power.
Without being tied to earth on one side the incoming mains will float to some arbitary value based on leakage or other phantom sources.
the earth connection has nothing to do with lightning protection

[Charles Vorbach]

Ok. So the ground connection is to make the fusor's chamber electrically common with any one touching it and serves as reference for the voltage applied. I also get that without grounding neutral or isolating the transformer (bad idea) the fusor's chamber would float to high voltages, but why does this make your house's center ground (assuming it works) inappropriate for high voltages at low currents?