Addressing HV safety excursions: Oh Yikes what do I do?
Addressing HV safety excursions: Oh Yikes what do I do?
I've been running pretty successfully with an Oil Burner Ignition Transformer, but am trying to get set up with a real HV power supply (one of the Spellman 50kV ones that went for cheap recently).
I have my vacuum system, my ion gauge controller chassis, other controller chassis, and my power supply chassis all grounded together with substantial wire.
I also have a "chicken stick" (4 feet long) with a grounded end.
Anyway, when I've tried to run up voltage, I've had some scary stuff happen. I've managed to get discharges, but I've also had loud *snap* noises followed by every piece of microprocessor-controlled equipment resetting. In one terrifying case I had sparks appearing on the corners of the front panel of a piece of equipment that was grounded.
Oddly, simple arc-overs on feedthroughs seem not to be happening to me.
How should I attack this to make things safe again?
I have my vacuum system, my ion gauge controller chassis, other controller chassis, and my power supply chassis all grounded together with substantial wire.
I also have a "chicken stick" (4 feet long) with a grounded end.
Anyway, when I've tried to run up voltage, I've had some scary stuff happen. I've managed to get discharges, but I've also had loud *snap* noises followed by every piece of microprocessor-controlled equipment resetting. In one terrifying case I had sparks appearing on the corners of the front panel of a piece of equipment that was grounded.
Oddly, simple arc-overs on feedthroughs seem not to be happening to me.
How should I attack this to make things safe again?
- Bob Reite
- Posts: 579
- Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:03 pm
- Real name: Bob Reite
- Location: Wilkes Barre/Scranton area
Re: Addressing HV safety excursions: Oh Yikes what do I do?
What specific piece of equipment had sparks coming from the corners? Is your grounding arrangement a "Star Ground" with the fusor shell the star point? See article viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9968 for a detailed description of a star ground. Note that the diagram there shows a dedicated star point, I chose to define the fusor shell as my star point when I built my system. What you do not want is a "daisy chain" arrangement where the ground goes from one piece of equipment to the next.
The more reactive the materials, the more spectacular the failures.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
Re: Addressing HV safety excursions: Oh Yikes what do I do?
I have a star ground with my high vacuum pump as the star point.
Sparks were coming off of the outside of my ion gauge controller, which was sitting on top of my HV power supply.
Sparks were coming off of the outside of my ion gauge controller, which was sitting on top of my HV power supply.
-
- Posts: 1850
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:29 pm
- Real name: John Futter
- Contact:
Re: Addressing HV safety excursions: Oh Yikes what do I do?
Sounds like a suspect earth in your mains wiring
Re: Addressing HV safety excursions: Oh Yikes what do I do?
Even with my star ground?
Oh boy.
Oh boy.
-
- Posts: 1850
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:29 pm
- Real name: John Futter
- Contact:
Re: Addressing HV safety excursions: Oh Yikes what do I do?
it just means that the ion gauge controller is probably not earthed
suspect mains wire
do a continuity check between controller and star point ---beware of painted chassis earths lifting the chassis away from what you think it is
suspect mains wire
do a continuity check between controller and star point ---beware of painted chassis earths lifting the chassis away from what you think it is
Re: Addressing HV safety excursions: Oh Yikes what do I do?
Ok, I'll look into that.
And I'm guessing that then at some point HV jumped to "ground" which wasn't really grounded and jumped between all the equipment, triggering resets of microprocessors?
And I'm guessing that then at some point HV jumped to "ground" which wasn't really grounded and jumped between all the equipment, triggering resets of microprocessors?
- Dennis P Brown
- Posts: 3189
- Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 10:46 am
- Real name: Dennis Brown
Re: Addressing HV safety excursions: Oh Yikes what do I do?
I have small copper screens over both my simple TC gauge and my ion gauge ports; discovered the hard way (not unlike you; and all my equipment has two independent ground points) that my plasma could see the grounds inside these gauge tubes - lucky, no costly failures.
- Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 15028
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: Addressing HV safety excursions: Oh Yikes what do I do?
All gas discharge systems are electrically noisey! Arcing is even noisier! All modern microprocessor based electronics do not do well with electrical noise.
Once all grounds are verified to be good and solid, as mentioned above, if reseting of the micro's continues, look for a possible unshielded "antenna" entering the gear. These can be subtle and sometimes not obvious.
Richard Hull
Once all grounds are verified to be good and solid, as mentioned above, if reseting of the micro's continues, look for a possible unshielded "antenna" entering the gear. These can be subtle and sometimes not obvious.
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Re: Addressing HV safety excursions: Oh Yikes what do I do?
I'm curious how you installed your metal screens. The easiest option would seem to be the weirdly expensive screened KF fitting rings.
-
- Posts: 1850
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:29 pm
- Real name: John Futter
- Contact:
Re: Addressing HV safety excursions: Oh Yikes what do I do?
Or with penning / pirani gauges make sure you have a right angle bend between chamber and gaugehead
so the gauge does not see the plasma
ions are like rays of light they do not go round corners
so the gauge does not see the plasma
ions are like rays of light they do not go round corners
- Dennis P Brown
- Posts: 3189
- Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 10:46 am
- Real name: Dennis Brown
Re: Addressing HV safety excursions: Oh Yikes what do I do?
To make my screen, I cut a small, circular piece of copper screen (but larger than the hole it is intended to fit "over") and gently pressed that piece of screen into said hole (making good electrical contact with the metal walls of the gauge tubes.) Works very well and solved the issue without causing any gauge reading errors since it is a fine, but not supper fine mesh. While a right angle is a good idea, that would require (for me) more KF connectors so, I went the simple, cheap, and easy method (not unlike most my designs ...lol.)