Fusion Cross Sectional Data

It may be difficult to separate "theory" from "application," but let''s see if this helps facilitate the discussion.
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Frank Sanns
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Fusion Cross Sectional Data

Post by Frank Sanns » Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:18 pm

The normal fusion fuels that are commonly used have much published data on fusion cross sections. It seems to stop before Carbon. Does anybody have a good source for energy (eV) vs Barnes for Carbon up to Iron with various combinations? Specifically I am looking for proton and nitrogen or oxygen but any of the higher element data would be interesting. I assume it goes up quite quickly with the extra charges but I have yet to lay eyes on it.

Thanks.

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Re: Fusion Cross Sectional Data

Post by prestonbarrows » Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:43 am

You will have more luck looking into stellar dynamics for things like this. Even in that realm, most things will be focused on hydrogen burning and the CNO cycle. If I remember correctly, something like lithium, carbon, neon,oxygen, and silicon(?) are some of the other more important ones for stars. I am no expert here.

No one in the fusion reactor community will give a damn about any of these except maybe lithium for tritium breeding.

One quick example of lab data with accelerators
http://arxiv.org/pdf/nucl-ex/0602012v1.pdf

Another reverence with some CNO cross sections listed
Clayton "Principles of stellar evolution and nucleosynthesis" p392

Those are just from a few minutes of poking around, I'ms sure one could find better by digging in deeper.

Nuclear medicine would be another area that would likely have this type of information. There are a number of important isotopes of nitrogen, oxygen, fluorine, iodine, xenon, molybdenum, and others. Most medical isotopes are produced artificially in some type of beam-on-target or reactor environment so cross section data should be available in the literature. This starts to drift away from "fusion" cross sections though.

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Re: Fusion Cross Sectional Data

Post by Bruce Meagher » Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:32 pm

Doesn’t the ENDF database provide the cross sectional data you are after? https://www-nds.iaea.org/exfor/endf.htm

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Re: Fusion Cross Sectional Data

Post by Frank Sanns » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:58 am

Yes, thanks.

One has to wonder where all of the data hides these days. There has to be endless data on such things. This post 911 crap has seriously limited science and collaborations.

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Re: Fusion Cross Sectional Data

Post by Richard Hull » Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:37 am

Lots of cool stuff that was on the internet that I searched out in the late ninties is just no longer there. Right after 9-11, a lot of stuff came down, but slowly much of it has come back on other sites. I can't imagine higher Z fusion cross sections being sensitive info......Unless you are onto something.

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Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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Re: Fusion Cross Sectional Data

Post by prestonbarrows » Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:54 pm

Bruce Meagher wrote:Doesn’t the ENDF database provide the cross sectional data you are after? https://www-nds.iaea.org/exfor/endf.htm
This is the best single collection of experimental cross section data that I know of. It sometimes takes a bit of digging to get what you need, but still much faster than sifting through papers if you just want the numbers (especially if you don't have access behind paywalls). It also lists references and uncertainties which is nice.

Is there a particular reaction you are looking for?

As a random example, 8-O-16(8-O-16,2P)14-SI-30
8-O-16(8-O-16,2P)14-SI-30.png
8-O-16(8-O-16,2P)14-SI-30.png (9.14 KiB) Viewed 1655 times
#ZVView-data-copy: 1-Jan-2016 18:51:14
#=======================================
#
#name: 8-O-16(8-O-16,2P)14-SI-30,,SIG
#X.axis: Incident Energy
#Y.axis: Cross Section
#wdata: 3
#ldata: 26
#data...
# X Y +-dY # Comments...
# MeV barns barns # Year,Author(s) ## EXFOR-ID
15.9 0.000211 4.009e-5 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
16.5 0.000706 0.00013414 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
16.9 0.000857 0.00016283 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
17.32 0.00172 0.0003268 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
17.72 0.0031 0.000589 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
18.26 0.00528 0.0010032 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
18.68 0.00728 0.0013832 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
19.12 0.0101 0.001919 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
19.56 0.0145 0.002755 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
20 0.0202 0.003838 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
20.44 0.026 0.00494 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
20.9 0.033 0.00627 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
21.34 0.0381 0.007239 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
21.82 0.0524 0.009956 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
22.28 0.0684 0.012996 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
22.74 0.0737 0.014003 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
23.22 0.0861 0.016359 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
23.58 0.095 0.01805 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
24.2 0.0928 0.017632 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
24.66 0.099 0.01881 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
25.26 0.107 0.02033 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
25.74 0.121 0.02299 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
26.2 0.136 0.02584 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
26.68 0.131 0.02489 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
27.16 0.138 0.02622 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
27.66 0.145 0.02755 # 1987,A.Kuronen+ ## C0212004
//
#-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Frank Sanns
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Re: Fusion Cross Sectional Data

Post by Frank Sanns » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:50 am

Preston,

Thanks for the link. I have used this in the past but am at a total loss on how to get all the data possible from the site.

Can you give me some idea how to input the data. I looked at all of the examples but I cannot even get H-2 as the projectile and H-2 the target to yield me a result.

Also, I do not know for sure what the product will be for some of the reactions that I am searching. I have a good guess but it would be nice to see what all products might be and the branching.

Thanks.

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Re: Fusion Cross Sectional Data

Post by Steven Sesselmann » Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:40 am

Frank,

The fusion data you are looking for might be on this page.

Download the relevant zip file and unzip it. There are hundreds of individual files with data on smashing anything into anything.

https://www-nds.iaea.org/fendl30/

Steven
http://www.gammaspectacular.com - Gamma Spectrometry Systems
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Steven_Sesselmann - Various papers and patents on RG

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Re: Fusion Cross Sectional Data

Post by prestonbarrows » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:59 am

Frank Sanns wrote:Preston,

Thanks for the link. I have used this in the past but am at a total loss on how to get all the data possible from the site.

Can you give me some idea how to input the data. I looked at all of the examples but I cannot even get H-2 as the projectile and H-2 the target to yield me a result.

Also, I do not know for sure what the product will be for some of the reactions that I am searching. I have a good guess but it would be nice to see what all products might be and the branching.

Thanks.
Under "Parameters:" you can choose filters such as the target nucleus, reaction, product and so on. The little arrows on the right side will pop up a window with all the possible choices. For example, the arrow next to target opens a periodic table where you can select hydrogen then get a list of all available isotopes of hydrogen. You want H-2 for deuterium.

It is best to start as generic as possible so you don't prematurely exclude any results.

Click submit and you will be shown a big confusing page of results. By default, the results are grouped by reaction. A nuclear reaction is denoted A(a, bcd)B, where A is the target nucleus,a is the bombarding particle, b, c, and d are the emitted particles, and B is the residual nucleus (the lighter reaction products are recorded within parentheses, and the heavier ones outside)

For example, "H-2(D,N'),SIG" means H-2 incident on a deuterium nucleus and ejecting a neutron. The residual nucleus is commonly omitted because it is implied by the target and bombarding particle. The "SIG" denotes sigma or cross-section; this specifies what types of data are available for each reaction. Elastic cross-sections or angular energy distributions are among some of the other possibilities. There is also some basic meta-data listed such as author, lab, date and so on.

If multiple groups have published results for the same reaction, they get lumped together. You can click the little folder icon to expand. You can then select a single result or an entire folder and either plot the data or get a text file result using the appropriate button next to the individual result or at the top of the page.



Nuclear reactions need to be balanced in a similar way to chemical reactions (this is why the residual nucleus is implied in the notation above). A good basic introduction can be found here. http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Physical_Ch ... _Reactions
This will limit the possible products for given target and incident particle. All reactions that are balanced are possible, providing the threshold energy is satisfied. If multiple results are possible, the cross-sections will tell you the relative ratios of the different possibilities. For example, shooting a beam of deuterium into a stationary background of deuterium will result in D(D,N) and D(D,P) with about equal cross-sections.

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