Thinking can range from dangerous to insightful

It may be difficult to separate "theory" from "application," but let''s see if this helps facilitate the discussion.
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quinnrisch
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Re: Thinking can range from dangerous to insightful

Post by quinnrisch »

It does take more energy to create a muon that is released by ONE duetron fusion event, BUT a muon can catalyze many fusion events. If I remember correctly the break even point with 100% efficiency is 200 fusion events, but a realistic estimate of efficiency requires 1000 fusion events.
quinnrisch
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Re: Thinking can range from dangerous to insightful

Post by quinnrisch »

Could you post that paper? I love literature.
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Richard Hull
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Re: Thinking can range from dangerous to insightful

Post by Richard Hull »

I don't believe neutrons carry a strong force, or that protons carry a strong force or any nucleons carry a strong force.

The neutrons are the glue because they have the electron to electrostatically bind the protons in the nucleus. It is a form of electrostatic bonding that is peculiar to short range bound positive and negative particles which I feel the neutron is. Some sort of lilliputian hydrogen atom. The manner or mechanism of this is certainly no stranger suggestion than dreaming up a separate strong force. We have no way of examining electrostatic forces at nuclear ranges anymore than we have of examining a mysterious new Strong Force. We can only measure the forces through inferences based on generalized measurments of many observations. can't see the strong force or the unsual electrostatic binding of the neutron. One is as acceptable as the other. A lot of folks lose sight of this because they assume that because someone said there is a strong force, it must be so. We are in a region where quantum guestimation and statistical analysis supply only a range of force which we can't explain.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
quinnrisch
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Re: Thinking can range from dangerous to insightful

Post by quinnrisch »

Concerning a nuetron as proton with an electron electrostatically to it-

This topic was debated in the early 50's (i beleive) and was decided to be impossible for several reasons, even if electrostatic force changes at nuclear distances for positive and negative charges.

1) For the electron to get so close to proton, a certain amount of energy would have to be expended. This energy would have to be either radiated away as a photon or become rest mass of the nuetron.
a) If the energy was radiated away as a photon, then a decay of a nuetron into proton and electron would be endothermic, thus requiring energy, which is not the case.
b) If the energy was solely converted to rest mass nuetron would have to be much heavier than observed.
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Richard Hull
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Re: Thinking can range from dangerous to insightful

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No one has ever seen a single neutron decay. Only a large number of them from which average data is taken. The resultant, classically, is an electron and a proton and a neutrino. No one has ever recorded a neutrino from neutron decay in any neutron decay experiment!
It is inferred. As the reaction is exothermic a number of photons could be released in the form of low grade heat which would not be detected by physicists looking for particles. We have no way of examining an isolated single neutron decay in extreme minute detail. In the instances where a bubble or cloud chamber has caught such an even, we only see an electron and a proton. Conveniently, for physicists the neutrino can't be picked up except in the minds of the standard model crafters.

Good lockstep physicists tell us that the neutron is NOT a proton and an electron in any combination. Yet the neutron is a rigid constituent of bulk matter. Beta decay always adds a proton magically to the nucleus. Neutrons decay into two easily identifiable particles, a proton and an electron with no other material particle visible. We know that outside of the nucleus the neutron APPEARS to be an unstable isotope of hydrogen. Yet it refuses to take on an electron as any ordinary nucleon would. (it already has one)

Ocam's razor demands the assumption that the neutron is a proton and an electron. How it is composed, held together, works or is formed is anyones guess, for that is all it would be.

Perhaps the electron associated with the neutron spirals or moves slowly into toward proton radiating photonic, low grade heat all the while until some critical point is reached and the two separate with the observed kinetic energies. I know the quantumists love wholesale electron jumps, but in a neutron, (a collapsed hydrogen atom) the jump phase for the electron may be over. My thoughts are as good as most everyone elses here as there is little proof for anyone's ideas without micro analyizing a single neutron decay process.

Richard Hull

I, therefore keep an open mind on the matter.
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
ijv
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Re: Thinking can range from dangerous to insightful

Post by ijv »

I found the paper at this site

apc2000.jpl.nasa.gov

Unfortunately the site has been down for the last few days. It was the 2000 Advanced Propulsion Workshop
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Re: Thinking can range from dangerous to insightful

Post by guest »

I think they have detected the neutrino back in the early
sixties..... it takes a nuclear reactor to make enough of them to detect. A neutino can travel through a light year
of lead but not be absorbed. But like all statistical processes some will decay early and be detectable
,the rest wiz on by ... about a billion neutrinos from cosmic events pass through you every second...
thank goodness they don't interact very well. If you look
in the september or october Discover magazine you will find an amazing story about the creation of low energy neutrinos (pion decays) from Fermi Lab throught the earth to detectors in France at CERN.
A crude morse type communication using neutrinos has been born. Only 38 billion dollars COD. If you act now.

Larry Leins
Physics Teacher
quinnrisch
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Re: Thinking can range from dangerous to insightful

Post by quinnrisch »

Nuetrino production is not out of the amatuer fusionists releam of possiblity.

With a large nuetron flux hitting a metal target, isotopes are bound to be produced, these isotopes can decay via beta decay and thus produce nuetrinos. The right choice of a target would make this fesible, some element that has an isotope that decays VERY quickly by beta decay.
r_c_edgar
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Re: Thinking can range from dangerous to insightful

Post by r_c_edgar »

It's not the production that's hard, it's the detection. The interaction between neutrinos and and everyday matter is incredibly weak - that's why such large detectors are needed, and why even the huge, multi-million dollar detectors can only detect the largest changes in neutrino flux.

And besides, compared to the background of solar neutrinos, I'm pretty sure anything that could be produced in a garage or basement would be utterly insignificant.

-Ryan Edgar
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