Video: IEC Fusion for dummies

It may be difficult to separate "theory" from "application," but let''s see if this helps facilitate the discussion.
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FogerRox
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Video: IEC Fusion for dummies

Post by FogerRox »

A schematic representation of magnetic fields, electron & ion flow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydG3qPlUhNY
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tligon
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Re: Video: IEC Fusion for dummies

Post by tligon »

FogerRox approached me over on NASASpaceFlight.com about doing this animation. I guess you guys will be the test audience. I may use this at the ISDC conference.

Thanks, Roger!
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Mike Beauford
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Re: Video: IEC Fusion for dummies

Post by Mike Beauford »

Very nice video. It's easier now to understand how it works. Quick question though, I know Dr. Bussard says he needs a bigger machine in order to get break-even, what was the reason again that he stated he could not get break even with a smaller machine again?

Was it to do with not being able to develop a deep enough well before the well would blowout?
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Re: Video: IEC Fusion for dummies

Post by tligon »

My understanding is that the main problem is that the power output (as opposed to gain) requires volume, rather than just magnetic field strength. The range of density over which these devices can do high rates of fusion is constrained. Too much density, it thermalizes. To little, the rate falls. So for any given set of parameters, there's an optimum density, and the power level per unit density will be limited. Overall power output is supposed to increase by B^4R^3 (R^ is the volume), and if B scales linearly with R, that would be R^7.

Against that, there is an expectation of B^4R scaling of power gain. That suggests that you probably could make net power, although low power, at a fairly small size with sufficient B. There may be a top end on that when the B field is so high that the ions start acting as if they are in a tokamak, and not in a machine driven by a potential well. Dr. Bussard is probably planning on something like 1-2 Teslas on the big machines. I'm guessing that around 6 T you start seeing significant effects on the ion trajectories, but that is purely a guess. ITER has magnets that have been tested to 13 T.
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Mike Beauford
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Re: Video: IEC Fusion for dummies

Post by Mike Beauford »

Hi Tom - Thanks for the reply. I guess what I was wondering is what is the smallest possible size you could make one of these fusors and still have it produce a net gain in power theoretically speaking of course. I know its a long shot, but as I mentioned to Richard, I'm a dreamer. I don't want to generate a mega watt. All I want to do is generate 1 watt! :)
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Richard Hull
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Re: Video: IEC Fusion for dummies

Post by Richard Hull »

The 1 net fusion watt is a dream as well.......sadly, but all the best in your effort.

One net watt would result in 1/2 watt of neutrons which can kill readily. Serious neutron exposures in an amateur device will begin at 1/10 watt of actual fusion. Such a low level of operation would produce neutrons over 10 million times more dangerous that the best ever done by an amatuer fusioneer.

Few folks really know what a single watt of real d-d fusion involves.
............. (~1 trillion neutrons/sec)...........
Radiologically, this is not very pretty.

Be careful of what you wish for. We would hate to lose you.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Mike Beauford
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Re: Video: IEC Fusion for dummies

Post by Mike Beauford »

Sorry - Had initially posted in the wrong message.

- Ah, Thanks Richard. I had a sneaky suspicion that if I ever did get anywhere near 1 watt, I'd be toast (Burnt and crispy). That is what I sort of suspected. I'd hate to kill the family off, my wife would kill me if I did something like that! ;)
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Re: Video: IEC Fusion for dummies

Post by FogerRox »

Thanks Mike,
The animation became a vehicle that increased my own very basic understanding. There are a few errors in that video, heres the corrected version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXyuN9nFka0
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Re: Video: IEC Fusion for dummies

Post by tligon »

I guess you COULD do it by digging a big pit in the back yard, burying the device, doping the ground with borax and keeping it moist.

I suspect the neighbors would complain.

But this thing would neutron-activate stuff around it like a sumbitch. In short order, you'd own radioactive materials you're only supposed to have with a license. That would be hard to explain.
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Re: Video: IEC Fusion for dummies

Post by Mike Beauford »

Yeah, I'd hate having to explain stuff. Especially to the wife, she just wouldn't understand.
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Re: Video: IEC Fusion for dummies

Post by Mike Beauford »

Hi Roger - Just a question. Are the recirculating electrons orange? Because I see some electrons as green, and some as orange being recirculated. I thought the injected electrons from the guns are green, and the recirculating electrons are orange. If that is what you meant, then you have some green electrons showing up where there should be orange recirculated electrons. Then again, maybe I don't understand this after all.
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Re: Video: IEC Fusion for dummies

Post by tligon »

I believe the orange things are deuterons. Notice they occasionally collide and make a fusion flash?

Speaking of which, Roger, last time I looked you have them originating a little outside the magrid on the cusps. They would actually be lost to the walls from there. I would create them at the magrid inner surface.

There is no text yet saying "now, throw in some fusion fuel ions ..."

Somebody at NASASpaceFlight.com suggested you run a line to the magrid from a + 12 kV power supply, and the return path to the electron emitters. The electron emitters are not high energy guns that "shoot" the electrons in. The magrid is the attractive anode that causes the electrons to accelerate. Showing the magrid at high positive voltage will explain why the electrons are so inclined to try to get to it, and not go back to the walls.
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Re: Video: IEC Fusion for dummies

Post by FogerRox »

Ions are orange. If I ever try this again, I would introduce one ion, and show its (radial?) back & forth travel across the potential well. Ahh gee, Looks like a I need to make one last edit to the video,

"label the orange dots as Ions....."
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Aw, you're doing great ...

Post by tligon »

... imagine doing this the old way, at Disney!
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Re: Video: IEC Fusion for dummies

Post by FogerRox »

Mike, I made that edit, IOns are orange, heres the newest link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiHsSAS_SQw

Tom, I might have been cut & pasting, but that was 1 frame at a time, about 8 frames/second. Whew~
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