Particle collider

It may be difficult to separate "theory" from "application," but let''s see if this helps facilitate the discussion.
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Tom McCarthy
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Particle collider

Post by Tom McCarthy »

Hey all,

Sorry for clogging up the posts lately, I've just been getting a lot of information needs I couldn't find and questions etc.
Anyways, I was looking around here and on the internet and I had a bit of a lightbulb moment. I was looking at one of the posts about a cyclotron or betatron. If i'm correct these accelerate protons and electrons respectively. I won't pretend to know much about either of the devices as I don't. But, I thought that there may be some way to put a fusor, cyclotron and betatron close together and they ma be able to form atoms somehow e.g: sending each of the sub-atomic particles towards each other forming the atom...
That's it, opinions or showing how or if it's impossible/possible are welcome.

Tom
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Richard Hull
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Re: Particle collider

Post by Richard Hull »

Someone may attempt to craft an answer, but you can't craft or cobble up atoms as you wish. Atoms come together or fuse in ultra energetic environments that we can't produce in the amateur community. In other words you can't just throw neutrons, protons and electrons together in a calm vacuum space and have them form various elemental atoms other than probably hydrogen.

It is a matter of simple physics. You need to study a bit of very basic nuclear physics to understand the actual why of it all. Too much to undertake your education related to this in these forums.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Tom McCarthy
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Re: Particle collider

Post by Tom McCarthy »

Well, thanks for humoring me anyway Richard. It was just an idea I came up with.

Would there be any way for the amateur to make some sort of particle collider? Not trying to control the type of element/atom you would be constructing but to quote you just "throwing electrons, protons and neutrons" but into a high energy vacuum rather than a simple calm. Again, it's just an idea.

Tom
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Richard Hull
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Re: Particle collider

Post by Richard Hull »

No not really. You just can't get the energy needed, period.

The fusor fuses at lower energies because we already have nature built atoms, (deuterium) and they are particularly easy to fuse in the thermal phase of the fusor collisional system at the relatively low thermal energies of 100 million kelvins, but don't get really cookin' until we supply about 900 million kelvins of possible collisional energy. This is the average in a good amateur fusor.

You would need much, much, much, more than this with just loose nuclear particles. Do yourself a favor and forget any elementary particle collider ideas unless you have millions to spend.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Tom McCarthy
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Real name: Tom McCarthy
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Re: Particle collider

Post by Tom McCarthy »

I think someone can always expect a straight answer from you Richard. You don't believe in bedside-manner?

But it was a nice thought for its short life.

Tom
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Richard Hull
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Re: Particle collider

Post by Richard Hull »

True....I'm not noted for my beside manner. Sorry your patient died. It is a hard world out there and phyics is a hard task master that is rarely gotten around on the sly. The number of open doors are few and the tariff to cross their treshold, high.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Chris Bradley
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Re: Particle collider

Post by Chris Bradley »

Tom McCarthy wrote: If i'm correct these accelerate protons and electrons respectively. ... put a fusor, cyclotron and betatron close together and they ma be able to form atoms somehow
All you need to do to make hydrogen atoms from protons and electrons is to put them in the same space together.

You'll need to run through the basics of what the various subatomic particles are, before going much further in this subject.
Tom McCarthy
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Re: Particle collider

Post by Tom McCarthy »

Yes, I think I've spent at least four hours reading the Wikipedia pages in the particles but I always get dragged into something like neutron stars or end up going in Facebook.

I'll probably keep the idea in my head but only as a theory, maybe someday someone might be able to make one amatuerly.

Wikipedia, here I come!

Tom
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