Fusor Created Diamonds- Is it possible

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Alexander Reifsnyder
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Fusor Created Diamonds- Is it possible

Post by Alexander Reifsnyder »

Hello Fusor.net,

I have a demonstration fusor that I built (some pictures and a description can be found at viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9371), and I have recently been experimenting with different grid shapes and materials, voltages and currents, etc. I then had the idea to try adding something to the inside of my fusion grid.
I settled on a strip of paper, because it was small, somewhat porous, organic material, easy to insert, and overall low risk. I placed it inside the grid and fired up the fusor. After a few seconds, the strip changed from white to blackish gray, as I would expect. I imagine that the cellulose was broken down into carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. The latter two probably escaped into the chamber, perhaps fueling the reaction slightly, and the carbon stayed behind.
After I ran it for about a minute longer, nothing more happened visibly. I took the paper, or I suppose it was mostly carbon at that point, out of the chamber, and I was about to throw it away when I saw a small glimmering point on the surface of the strip. I immediately disregarded diamond as a possibility, but upon thinking about the extraordinary conditions inside the chamber, I wonder if it could be diamond.
I know that NASA has discovered many trillions of "nano-diamonds" in space, floating on asteroids and meteors, so I am curious if the fusor could have done the same thing.
I am aware that it is a large and possibly ignorant leap to see a glimmer on a black surface, and declare that it must be diamond, but I do wonder if it might be possible. Please share any thoughts that you might have. Thank you in advance for your time.
Andrew Seltzman
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Re: Fusor Created Diamonds- Is it possible

Post by Andrew Seltzman »

I'm not sure exactly what you are seeing, but I do know that the DeBeers industrial diamond division does make diamond abrasives / sheets / RF windows by plasma assisted chemical vapor deposition of methane, so it is possible...
Andrew Seltzman
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George Schmermund
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Re: Fusor Created Diamonds- Is it possible

Post by George Schmermund »

I think that if you inspect it under a good microscope you'll find that it is most likely a speck of refractory debris from the manufacturing process or something that was picked up during handling.
Anything obvious in high vacuum is probably wrong.
John Futter
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Re: Fusor Created Diamonds- Is it possible

Post by John Futter »

Alexander
I doubt you are seeing diamond unless you have run your system for days and days.
As others have pointed out it is most likely a flake of evaporated grid or foreign object.
We make DLC (Diamond like Coatings) @ work. To form the required Sp3 ,Sp2 bonds for DLC formation the ion energy is only a few eV. High eV destroys these bonds and the carbon turns to graphite and raising the energy higher results in amorphous carbon being deposited / implanted. We run at around 6kV and 15mA and after a few hours we will get a micron of DLC coating -- Oh and yes it is jet black
Jerry Biehler
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Re: Fusor Created Diamonds- Is it possible

Post by Jerry Biehler »

Most paper has a lot of clay in it, the heat may have melted some of the clay together and made a glass.
Arvin Singh
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Re: Fusor Created Diamonds- Is it possible

Post by Arvin Singh »

You should try using methane instead. No oxygen, no explosion
Jerry Biehler
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Re: Fusor Created Diamonds- Is it possible

Post by Jerry Biehler »

You might have seen some silica, silica is in wood fibers and really won't care about the plasma.

The paper was just burned away just like what happens in a commercial plasma asher used in semiconductor manufacturing. See Ben's video on plasma cleaning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atVSxvbiPg0
Arvin Singh
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Re: Fusor Created Diamonds- Is it possible

Post by Arvin Singh »

Methane would just make pyrolytic graphite.
Use pure carbon on the wire.
John Futter
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Re: Fusor Created Diamonds- Is it possible

Post by John Futter »

Arvin
what are you talking about
diamond can be grown from any hydrocarbon gas we use methane and butane to do it
whether you get amorphous glassy carbon, Graphite, graphene, or diamond depends on many things but not the hydrocarbon gas type.

here is the title of one paper I worked on
If you serch my name you find quite a few more on this topic

High Energy Radial Deposition of Diamond-Like Carbon Coatings
Konrad Suschke 1, René Hübner 2, Peter Paul Murmu 1, Prasanth Gupta 1,3, John Futter 1 and Andreas Markwitz 1,3,*
1 Department of Materials and Air, GNS Science, 30 Gracefield Road, Lower Hutt 5010, New Zealand
2 Institute of Ion Beam Physics and Materials Research, Helmholtz-Zentrum Dresden-Rossendorf, 01314 Dresden, Germany
3 The MacDiarmid Institute for Advanced Materials and Nanotechnology, Victoria University of Wellington, P.O. Box 600, Wellington 6140, New Zealand
* Author to whom correspondence should be addressed.
Received: 5 June 2015 / Accepted: 22 July 2015 / Published: 24 July 2015
(This article belongs to the Special Issue Trends in Coatings and Surface Technology—Feature Papers)
View Full-Text | Download PDF [3072 KB, uploaded 24 July 2015] | Browse Figures
Abstract

Diamond-like carbon (DLC) coatings were deposited with a new direct ion deposition system using a novel 360 degree ion source operating at acceleration voltage between 4 and 8 kV. Cross-sectional TEM images show that the coatings have a three layered structure which originates from changes in the deposition parameters taking into account ion source condition, ion current density, deposition angles, ion sputtering and ion source movement. Varying structural growth conditions can be achieved by tailoring the deposition parameters. The coatings show good promise for industrial use due to their high hardness, low friction and excellent adhesion to the surface of the samples.
Keywords: diamond-like carbon; direct ion deposition; anode layer ion source; amorphous carbon; TEM
This is an open access article distributed under the Creative Commons Attribution License (CC BY) which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original work is properly cited.
James_Chenault
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Re: Fusor Created Diamonds- Is it possible

Post by James_Chenault »

John,

It is entirely possible that you did indeed make diamonds or diamond-like material. You put cellulose in a plasma, cellulose is very close to sugar in chemical formula so, like you said, you had carbon, oxygen and hydrogen in your fusor, in addition to whatever normal atmosphere you were using. All you would need at that point would be something to start a nucleation site for the diamond to form. Visit https://myorganicchemistry.wikispaces.com/Cellulose for the structure of cellulose. there is one carbon atom already attached to 2 other carbons in each ring. I'd guess that to be the start of the nucleation site. I grew thin film diamond in graduate school, you have everything present to make the diamond. I'd consider tweaking parameters (energy, temperature, pressure) and seeing if you can make more. Or find a way to instrument your device and a way to measure the created material. In particular, you did one thing without thinking about it that was very important to thin film diamond growth. You placed the material in the chamber, and then started the process. The result of my thesis showed that nucleation sites form as the temperature is rising to the stable growth temperature. i.e. you pass through ranges where different chemistry can take place. One of those ranges has been shown to produce nucleation sites. At higher temperatures, you grow the diamond on already created sites.

well, maybe a bit late, but, that's my two cents worth
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