Creating plasma with microwaves?

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Sven Andersson
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Creating plasma with microwaves?

Post by Sven Andersson » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:28 pm

With a magnetron from a microwave oven. What would a simple setup look like for deuterium gas at 1-10 Pa?

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Richard Hull
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Re: Creating plasma with microwaves?

Post by Richard Hull » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:58 pm

We recommend against using magnetrons from ovens unless you are expert in microwave technology. Unlike radio waves from a transmitter the magnetron throws all its energy in a directed beam. Reflections, VSWR mismatch issues and failure to observe strict precautions can have an eye or an organ cooked by a misdirected or reflected beam or blow up the maggie, itself.

If you are not very careful you can create a life changing event.

Two of our most stringent and strong admonitions.

1. Do not play or experiment with x-ray tubes or powerful oven magnetrons
2. Do not open or work with naked, controlled radioactive materials.

Richard Hull
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Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
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Re: Creating plasma with microwaves?

Post by John Futter » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:48 am

Sven
look at Richards reply
but you can put a tube of your favourite gas in an ordinary microwave oven and see the result

for a start take an ordinary incandescant bulb that has a blown filament and put it in an ordinary microwave oven and observe the argon plasma

Ordinary bulbs are back filled with argon to stop the tungsten filament evaporating.
After doing this consider your quest done!!

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Re: Creating plasma with microwaves?

Post by Sven Andersson » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:19 pm

John Futter wrote:Sven
look at Richards reply
but you can put a tube of your favourite gas in an ordinary microwave oven and see the result
How about this for a setup: take a vial or ampoule with two internal plate electrodes melted into the glass. Fill with D2 at the pressure I choose. Microwave in an intact MW-oven until there is a plasma. Turn off microwave oven. And immediately (can be programmed with relays perhaps) turn on the high voltage between the electrode plates and observe what happens.

But how do you safely lead two wires into the MW-oven? Drill two 2 mm holes in the internal metal cage? Now, can the wires act as antennas for microwaves and transmit them out of the MW-oven? Let's say you have two relays immediately outside the metal cage, and that those two relays are closed during the microwave phase, so to speak?

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Richard Hull
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Re: Creating plasma with microwaves?

Post by Richard Hull » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:42 pm

This has become a rather ridiculous thread. Folks in the know understand why this will not effectively do anything of value, much less, do any fusion at all. What's more, the idea would fail on the face of it. I fear that my usual Ben Franklin quote, "Let the experiment be done!", might result in Sven's untimely death or permanent injury so I will not recommend that path. That quote is usually reserved for those showing up here with grandiose ideas involving extreme time and expense to prove or disprove. They have ideas, but no verve or will to do.

Dangerous experiments are not to be recommended, commented on or condoned. Doing well-guided, well-trodden paths to successful amateur fusion are dangerous enough without rather hair-brained ideas involving 1 kilowatt microwave oven experiments where the very best result might be the destruction of the family's microwave oven.

Richard Hull
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Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
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Re: Creating plasma with microwaves?

Post by Sven Andersson » Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:36 pm

Richard Hull wrote:We recommend against using magnetrons from ovens
Some of the stuff people have done and put on YouTube is mind boggling as regards safety! Search for "What microwave oven is capable. Generated plasma." or "Magnetron #6 - Irradiating A Vacuum Jar" or "Dangerous Magnetron from Microwave Oven 1".

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Re: Creating plasma with microwaves?

Post by Grigory_Heaton » Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:43 am

John Futter wrote:Sven
for a start take an ordinary incandescant bulb that has a blown filament and put it in an ordinary microwave oven and observe the argon plasma
Apologies for reviving a dead thread, but after reading this I was quite interested in what the temperatures inside the plasma will be. Do you have any ideas?

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Richard Hull
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Re: Creating plasma with microwaves?

Post by Richard Hull » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:32 am

Did you ever consider reading the FAQs!!

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=10424

Temperatures as you know them........Plasmas are ice cold for the most part.

As physicists evaluated them.... millions and billions of kelvins

READ...READ...READ

Richard Hull
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Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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Re: Creating plasma with microwaves?

Post by Grigory_Heaton » Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:19 am

With all due respect, what I meant to say was that I was interested in whether or not anyone had actually taken a direct, relatively precise measurement of the plasma particle energies in a (specifically) microwaved lightbulb (even though I'm not sure how someone would go about doing this).

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Richard Hull
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Re: Creating plasma with microwaves?

Post by Richard Hull » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:25 am

Assuming an absolutely clear light bulb and assuming you knew what gases were contained, a custom designed slit in an ocean optics or similar PC compatible spectrometer might be able to show doppler broadening of certain spectral lines to determine the range of energies in the gas. The microwave door would have to be open to give a clean light path to the spectrometer. It might involve a small telescope that would allow some distance from the microwave radiation. I can't imagine much real span on the broadening. (low average energies/plasma temp)

Certainly not worth the effort unless you already had the spectrometer.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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