LENR / Solid State Fusor

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Harald_Consul
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Re: LENR / Solid State Fusor

Post by Harald_Consul »

Thanks for your valuable contributions.

I really googled "beam on target fusion" and found these cross section graphs
cross_sections.jpg
(Source: https://www.quora.com/What-is-beam-target-fusion)

My Questions to these cross-sections:
  1. What does a cross section of 4! in Deuterium-Tritium beam-target-fusion at 10^2keV effectively mean? 3 further chain reactions?
  2. How has the target been hold in place during the measurement of these cross-sections (which are pretty high, thus would seek design reproduction)
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: LENR / Solid State Fusor

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Detailed answers require you study the field a bit - for instance: the definition of a "Barn" (that will answer your question of what the "4" is in the chart.) Doing this is necessary if you want to be taken seriously here. That said, you need to realize that these are 'solid' targets - do the math and you will see why and how the target cross-section occurs for the ion beam on target. That is a very simple calculation that just needs elementary math. You have a lot of reading and studying to do if you want to be more than a speculator (and spectator - like most people that post here and then are never heard from again.)
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Richard Hull
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Re: LENR / Solid State Fusor

Post by Richard Hull »

I can't ad much to what Dennis has posted. We cannot and will not, as amateur fusioneers, ever do D-T fusion. Looking at the charts, outside of D-T fusion, D-D fusion is the very finest fusion and has a good and useful slope up to 100 kev which is the absolute voltage limit for the most aggressive amateur fusioneer. At 100kev X-radiation is very lethal.

You notice that all reactions have a voltage peak beyond which, a process called "stripping" occurs. This means there is so much energy applied that the individual nucleons are sheared off the atom and fusion occurs less and less frequently, (cross section falls off). For D-D this is called the Oppenheimer- Philips reaction.

Thus, there is a point where fusion just stops and you are just breaking up atoms with the continuous input of wasted energy.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Richard Hull
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Re: LENR / Solid State Fusor

Post by Richard Hull »

Apparently this discussion may be taken up again and this moves it forward.

While most folks have long ago looked at this as a lost effort, I continue to listen intently when real science is expounded around it. The thing about lattice fusion that inspires me is that it approaches that portion of the classic Lawson criteria of confinement of massive amounts of hydrogen in the form of deuterium. Claims are made of tritium being produced which were debunked for the most part.

One experiment that I am unware of is the loading of palladium or better still Thorium which is also a lattice that accepts huge amounts of hydrogen, from a 50:50 solution of D2O and T2O. This has not nor will not be done on a suitable scale by any scientific body, amateur or professional, due to the radioactivity and unavailability of liquid T2O. Yet I would think that it might be an obvious choice in a LENR experiment. D-T fusion begins at extremely low energy inputs whether induced electrostatically or thermally. Why not load a lattice nearly 50:50.

Up until now we have to grant the real world physicists and ourselves, who do fusion, the observed fact that fusion, as we know it, has nuclear ash and a well known and measured energy output.
D-D fusion = P + n + 3He + T and the hyper rare 4He + intense gamma ray (second easiest fusion to do via IECF or thermal fusion) All the energy derived is kinetic energy, save for the rare gamma ray
D-T fusion = 4He + n (The easiest known fusion reaction and takes place at ~1000 times greater frequency at its peak over the D-D reaction at the same applied energy) 100% of the energy is kinetic energy

The CANR/LENR folks claim reactions that seem to release heat energy from the lattice in the case of D loadings. By normal fusion physics, heat of the nature observed, even a rise of 5 degrees Celsius would require a lethal blast of neutrons in our D-D reaction. They are not seen. Herein, lay the real world physicists argument. Some say it is all chemical in some form of triggered mass release of the loading of D, returning the stored energy from the long term electrolysis electrical lattice loading energy. The LENR people believe it might be a new form of fusion, as yet unimagined. The burden of proof is on them, of course. Here the sleeping dog lies and the ball is bouncing in their court.

Thus far, the real world accepted fusion is secure as the ruling physics. The real world fusion effort continues to fumble and bungle its way into seeing just how much of the public treasure it can burn through in a quest to get more usable energy out of their well studied and fully accepted reactions.

Is it all just a big joke? We do it too! However, we do it without the hope of a great breakthrough at our level of operation. We are amateurs, after all and just wish to "do" and "experiment" with our "real- world", "physics-accepted", fusion ash, what there is of it.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: LENR / Solid State Fusor

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Interesting that you brought this old post up. For the last few months I have given this issue thought and see some possibilities that might be worthwhile exploring. While I have many larger goals to deal with this coming year, this aspect of fusion has intrigued me to no end. But in no case will I further deal with those 'possibilities' until I have a working fusor - and that must include a few properly working neutron detectors! I will only say that at some point, I want to visit this fascinating area of 'discredited' fusion and look deeper into it with experimental research; speculation is for the birds.
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Richard Hull
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Re: LENR / Solid State Fusor

Post by Richard Hull »

In the end, I... Do not... see CF, CANR, LENR even if real and working by some as yet unexpected process as a solution to our energy problems related to fusion. However, I will remain open minded, but look on any work with a jaundiced, critical, scientific eye.
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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