Betatron?

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Noah C Hoppis
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Betatron?

Post by Noah C Hoppis »

Hello I am currently working on constructing a cyclotron for protons and deutrons, and it occurred to me that the most expensive part is the magnet. I want to get the most out of this so I was wondering how practical it would be to replace the 320keV acceleration chamber for protons with a several MeV betatron tube for electrons. The main debate i have is where and how much would a betatron tube go for, and for that price would it be worth finding and manufacturing my own betatron tube.
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Carl Willis
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Re: Betatron?

Post by Carl Willis »

I'm skeptical that the same core could accommodate the requirements for both a practical betatron and a practical cyclotron. Having some calculations that actually suggest this versatility would be a first step (and would really impress me); otherwise, you are considering two very different projects and probably need to pick one or the other.

A betatron tube suitable for use with your own core would be a custom piece of apparatus costing probably no less than $5,000 if you had to pay people for the skilled work involved in making it. Small betatrons are manufactured for commercial radiography, but I have never seen the tube sold as either a new replacement component or as a surplus item. In fact, it's possible that the design has evolved beyond the classic configuration with a separable tube. In short, I'm unaware of an inexpensive commercial option for obtaining a betatron tube. Betatron hobbyists on a budget would probably have to think creatively about how to make a viable tube with their own resources.

-Carl
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Noah C Hoppis
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Re: Betatron?

Post by Noah C Hoppis »

Thanks carl, I was looking for the exact info you supplied! Interesting that the magnet requirements differ so much simply based on the acceleration cavity sandwiched in the middle, I would think the pole faces and total field strength would need to change. I was starting to think that betatron tubes were never ment to be replaced, and you confirmed that (though I wonder what kind of tubes they use now). Thanks for the info, saved me a lot of wasted time!
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Jeroen Vriesman
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Re: Betatron?

Post by Jeroen Vriesman »

Noah,

what size/strength magnet do you need?

I can get a magnet which has been used for quenching a big vacuum high voltage switch. It's probably about 20 kilo's of CoSm and DN150CF for the vacuum.

field could be about 0.5T but I' m not sure. See picture for the rest of the switch (without the magnet, nice 300kV feedthrough :) ), I can pick it up in about two weeks from now and measure the field, if it's usefull for you.

I'm not asking any money for the magnet. but the shipping costs will be very high.
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Noah C Hoppis
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Re: Betatron?

Post by Noah C Hoppis »

where are you located, I could come and pick it up if it is anywhere in washington oregon idaho or the west half of montana. Getting a magnet for the project would help a a lot, The best offer i have is a $600 magnet in oregon. I would love it if you could get measurements of the magnet. the vacuum ports could be worth it alone!
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Noah C Hoppis
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Re: Betatron?

Post by Noah C Hoppis »

The magnet I need would have to be in the range of .5T to 1T and in the pole faces are not pointed at each other i would have to build it a flux yoke (pictured below)
ewen_cyclotron_slide26.jpg
*not to scale!
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Chris Bradley
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Re: Betatron?

Post by Chris Bradley »

Noah, you really need to hone down the operating parameters of the device you want to build.

Or the other way is to collect what you can get and then wonder 'what's the best experiment I can do with this'?

What is it that you actually want to do? What is your experimental 'end-point' and how will you know when you've achieved it?
Jeroen Vriesman
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Re: Betatron?

Post by Jeroen Vriesman »

Noah,

location is the netherlands.

-Jeroen.
Tim Koeth
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Re: Betatron?

Post by Tim Koeth »

Hi Noah,

Carl's intuition is correct. There is an elegant bit of magic required for the Betatron's magnetic field - the flux at the radius of the electron's orbit has to be 1/2 the flux at the center of the magnet for a successful sole induction-based acceleration (this is a great calculation to do and you should). Such a field configuration is impossible for cyclotron (magnetic resonance acceleration).

Interestingly though, the big synchrotrons of the world, i.e. Fermilabs booster, Main Injector, former TeVatron, have a non-negligible amount of induction acceleration because of their magnets ramping to maintain a fixed radius equilibrium orbit. Acceleration nominally comes from RF cavities stationed somewhere around the ring.

Hope this helps.
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