Okay, so your chamber is sealed together by a "ISO flange". I have no experience with this type of flange before but they uses a piece of (standard size) viton and clamp to secure them together. The most popular type of flange are Conflat and NW (also known is KF, NF) so your flange is pretty rare. You might have to contact a manufacturer to see whether they have the viton gasket for your large flange. The link below is the information on your flange:
http://www.lesker.com/newweb/flanges/fl ... cfm?pgid=0
Kunakorn (Jack) Puntawong
Archived - Cameron Key's Fusor Efforts
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Jack Puntawong
- Posts: 150
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- Real name: Kunakorn Puntawong
- Location: Bangkok, Thailand
- Contact:
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Doug Browning
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:19 pm
- Real name: Doug Browning
Re: Cameron Key's Fusor Efforts
Yes, I just now noticed the ISO clamps. Standard ISO flange sizes in that range would be ISO 250 (261 mm ID, 290 mm OD), ISO 320 (318 mm ID, 370 mm OD), ISO 400 (400 mm ID, 450 mm OD), ISO 500 (501 mm ID, 550 mm OD), ISO 630 (651 mm ID, 690 mm OD).
The ISO gaskets typically use a Viton O ring with aluminum or SS centering rings on the inside and outside of the O ring.
(An L shape cross-section Bell jar gasket may be cheaper if you can find one that fits. )
http://www.lesker.com/newweb/menu_flang ... &init=skip
http://www.lesker.com/newweb/flanges/ha ... ?pgid=ssal
http://www.lesker.com/newweb/chambers/S ... lJar_3.cfm
[img]Photo-HD-QF100SARV[/img]
The ISO gaskets typically use a Viton O ring with aluminum or SS centering rings on the inside and outside of the O ring.
(An L shape cross-section Bell jar gasket may be cheaper if you can find one that fits. )
http://www.lesker.com/newweb/menu_flang ... &init=skip
http://www.lesker.com/newweb/flanges/ha ... ?pgid=ssal
http://www.lesker.com/newweb/chambers/S ... lJar_3.cfm
[img]Photo-HD-QF100SARV[/img]
- Attachments
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Doug Browning
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:19 pm
- Real name: Doug Browning
Re: Cameron Key's Fusor Efforts
Wow, those centering rings are expensive! Looks like you will want to order just the O ring and make your own centering ring for it.
http://www.lesker.com/newweb/flanges/ha ... ?pgid=buna
http://www.lesker.com/newweb/flanges/ha ... uorocarbon
http://www.lesker.com/newweb/flanges/ha ... ?pgid=buna
http://www.lesker.com/newweb/flanges/ha ... uorocarbon
Re: Cameron Key's Fusor Efforts
Jack and Don, sorry I haven't been able to reply. I've been busy with finals.
It doesn't look like I'm going to find an O-ring online easily. The chamber isn't a standard size, it seems. It's 17 inches ID and 18 inches OD.
I'm considering buying a sheet of viton, and cutting a gasket from it myself, a wide, flat one, so I don't need a centering ring. I'm not sure how well it will work. Do either of you have experience with seals like that? I may bring up the question in the vacuum tech board and see what others think.
The only concern I have at the moment about making my own ring is the large surface area a flat gasket offers. Unlike the standard rounded gaskets, a flat gasket will not have very much compression per unit surface area. The question is whether or not it will be too weakly-compressed to maintain a tight seal.
Sheets of viton are cheap enough that I'd be comfortable trying it and seeing what works and what doesn't, but suggestions are appreciated, as always!
It doesn't look like I'm going to find an O-ring online easily. The chamber isn't a standard size, it seems. It's 17 inches ID and 18 inches OD.
I'm considering buying a sheet of viton, and cutting a gasket from it myself, a wide, flat one, so I don't need a centering ring. I'm not sure how well it will work. Do either of you have experience with seals like that? I may bring up the question in the vacuum tech board and see what others think.
The only concern I have at the moment about making my own ring is the large surface area a flat gasket offers. Unlike the standard rounded gaskets, a flat gasket will not have very much compression per unit surface area. The question is whether or not it will be too weakly-compressed to maintain a tight seal.
Sheets of viton are cheap enough that I'd be comfortable trying it and seeing what works and what doesn't, but suggestions are appreciated, as always!
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Doug Browning
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:19 pm
- Real name: Doug Browning
Re: Cameron Key's Fusor Efforts
Hmmm, close to ISO 400, but no cigar. Some big foreline traps use a metal strip, cut to fit tightly in a loop within the flange ID, which restrains the O ring from being sucked into the vacuum by protruding above the flange some. These strips are typically spot welded to the inner tank surface, but if you have some strap with a little thickness, and butted end to end tightly, that might work without the welds (press fit in). Maybe check that ISO 400 O ring to see if it would fit the flange this way. (edit: 15.48 inch a bit too small unfort.)
The standard centering rings are usually machined in the smaller ISO sizes, but if you inspect the ISO ring picture posted above, you will see that some are made just from bending a machined strip into a loop. A larger ring could be shrunken or a smaller one expanded possibly. Maybe you can find the extrusion material itself available to make a custom one. You will have to find an O ring to fit that then, but the O ring manufacturers seem to have quite a selection available. (not just the standard ISO sizes)
You could certainly get a flat seal to work with a little vacuum grease on it. Not good to use Vac grease though if those surfaces are going to get hot. The greased surface will also allow the seal to slowly slip (get sucked) into the vacuum unless there is some restraint on the ID, like the interior metal strip described above. The L or T shaped Bell jar gaskets also prevent slippage with that outer angled part. Viton is very hard to glue things to, but I think there is some special glue for it that would allow you to attach an outer Viton strip restraint. (could just be another bigger flat ring glued to its side(s) too) Don't get any glue on the vacuum exposed seal surface.
The standard centering rings are usually machined in the smaller ISO sizes, but if you inspect the ISO ring picture posted above, you will see that some are made just from bending a machined strip into a loop. A larger ring could be shrunken or a smaller one expanded possibly. Maybe you can find the extrusion material itself available to make a custom one. You will have to find an O ring to fit that then, but the O ring manufacturers seem to have quite a selection available. (not just the standard ISO sizes)
You could certainly get a flat seal to work with a little vacuum grease on it. Not good to use Vac grease though if those surfaces are going to get hot. The greased surface will also allow the seal to slowly slip (get sucked) into the vacuum unless there is some restraint on the ID, like the interior metal strip described above. The L or T shaped Bell jar gaskets also prevent slippage with that outer angled part. Viton is very hard to glue things to, but I think there is some special glue for it that would allow you to attach an outer Viton strip restraint. (could just be another bigger flat ring glued to its side(s) too) Don't get any glue on the vacuum exposed seal surface.
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Peter Schmelcher
- Posts: 228
- Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:56 am
- Real name: Peter Schmelcher
Re: Cameron Key's Fusor Efforts
Parker has an o-ring handbook with lots of good design information. http://www.parker.com/literature/ORD%20 ... ndbook.pdf
ebay item number 200380992516 is a $20 Viton o-ring 17-1/2" ID X 18" OD with a 1/4" cross section. This diameter will give you some room to kluge a centering ring, however, I suspect it will not move after it is squeezed. I tested a SS to glass bell jar seal using an o-ring without a centering ring and it never moved. A centering ring will make the assembly easier.
-Peter
ebay item number 200380992516 is a $20 Viton o-ring 17-1/2" ID X 18" OD with a 1/4" cross section. This diameter will give you some room to kluge a centering ring, however, I suspect it will not move after it is squeezed. I tested a SS to glass bell jar seal using an o-ring without a centering ring and it never moved. A centering ring will make the assembly easier.
-Peter
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Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 15027
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: Cameron Key's Fusor Efforts
This is not a discussion forum and this now seems to have evolved into a Construction forum issue. Move it there.
Images du jour is for simple images of finished projects or parts of project materials or accomplsihment confirmations of fusion, conference or get together meetings, nuclear tourism visual reports, etc.
Richard Hull
Images du jour is for simple images of finished projects or parts of project materials or accomplsihment confirmations of fusion, conference or get together meetings, nuclear tourism visual reports, etc.
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Re: Cameron Key's Fusor Efforts
Sorry Richard, my bad. I'll open up a thread in the Construction forum for continued discussion.
Re: Cameron Key's Fusor Efforts
Tuesday, Jan. 01, 2014
First Update of the new year!
Although very premature, I managed to get my hands on a He-3 Tube for neutron detection. Here it is!
(Russian made CHM-42)
In other news. The big diff. came over winter break. The box was trashed to the point of leaking packing peanuts when it arrived--never bodes well.
(top of the "christmas-tree" baffle assembly)
As shown, the pump didn't look so hot out of the box. The bit of threaded rod at the top of the assembly stuck up an inch or so above the top of the pump, so, naturally, it showed up upside-down with the bolt sticking through the cardboard of the box.
(Curvature in aluminum rod)
The weight of the pump resting on such a small area also bent the aligning rod which holds the whole baffle system together. Thankfully, a test with a strong magnet proved it to be aluminum, so straightening was no issue.
(Same parts as last pictue; disassembled)
At first I thought the small bolt on top of the baffle was permanently attached, but, on closer inspection, it looked like it might unscrew. If it did, in fact, twist out, it was far too bent to come undone easily with the tools I had available (couldn't get a proper grip on it without a vise), but with the help of my neighbor, Don, we managed to get the thing apart.
(Same parts as before, re-assembled with new threaded-rod in place and aluminum rod straightened)
A quick pinch in Don's calipers later, and we found the rod to be of standard size. Don found an extra brass bolt that we cut to the appropriate size. Good as new! I don't think the brass should be much of a problem in vacuum, despite its zinc content. This bit should be small enough to be inconsequential.
(Large Diffusion pump, partially disassembled)
Here it is! It still needs an awful lot of cleaning and a little insulation repair on the electrical parts, but overall, I'm very happy with it.
(Same as above, hand for scale)
Unfortunately, the chamber lift is currently out of commission. It'll lift up to a certain point, then something jams, the motor draws too much current, and the fuse blows. I think the culprit is a bent tooth on the worm gear but can't be certain. Don has a treasure trove of experience when it comes to this sort of thing, so he's going to help me disassemble it, clean it, and assess the damage. I'll be posting pictures soon.
Connor Is currently scouring the internet and tri-state area for anything we can potentially use as a power supply. Some recyclers in the area get distribution transformers in from time to time, and there are quite a few industrial/medical recycling companies around the area. It can't hurt to call 'em all!
First Update of the new year!
Although very premature, I managed to get my hands on a He-3 Tube for neutron detection. Here it is!
(Russian made CHM-42)
In other news. The big diff. came over winter break. The box was trashed to the point of leaking packing peanuts when it arrived--never bodes well.
(top of the "christmas-tree" baffle assembly)
As shown, the pump didn't look so hot out of the box. The bit of threaded rod at the top of the assembly stuck up an inch or so above the top of the pump, so, naturally, it showed up upside-down with the bolt sticking through the cardboard of the box.
(Curvature in aluminum rod)
The weight of the pump resting on such a small area also bent the aligning rod which holds the whole baffle system together. Thankfully, a test with a strong magnet proved it to be aluminum, so straightening was no issue.
(Same parts as last pictue; disassembled)
At first I thought the small bolt on top of the baffle was permanently attached, but, on closer inspection, it looked like it might unscrew. If it did, in fact, twist out, it was far too bent to come undone easily with the tools I had available (couldn't get a proper grip on it without a vise), but with the help of my neighbor, Don, we managed to get the thing apart.
(Same parts as before, re-assembled with new threaded-rod in place and aluminum rod straightened)
A quick pinch in Don's calipers later, and we found the rod to be of standard size. Don found an extra brass bolt that we cut to the appropriate size. Good as new! I don't think the brass should be much of a problem in vacuum, despite its zinc content. This bit should be small enough to be inconsequential.
(Large Diffusion pump, partially disassembled)
Here it is! It still needs an awful lot of cleaning and a little insulation repair on the electrical parts, but overall, I'm very happy with it.
(Same as above, hand for scale)
Unfortunately, the chamber lift is currently out of commission. It'll lift up to a certain point, then something jams, the motor draws too much current, and the fuse blows. I think the culprit is a bent tooth on the worm gear but can't be certain. Don has a treasure trove of experience when it comes to this sort of thing, so he's going to help me disassemble it, clean it, and assess the damage. I'll be posting pictures soon.
Connor Is currently scouring the internet and tri-state area for anything we can potentially use as a power supply. Some recyclers in the area get distribution transformers in from time to time, and there are quite a few industrial/medical recycling companies around the area. It can't hurt to call 'em all!
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Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 15027
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: Cameron Key's Fusor Efforts
Again, everyone in future, who wants to see a diff pump taken apart and hear how a difficult problem would be handled might naturally think to go to the vacuum forum, but they will never see your efforts here. Who would think to look for vacuum system solutions in image du jour. Some folks might want to see what a real 3He tube looks like and go to the radiation and neutron detection forum, but they won't see your tube there.
Post the system specific stuff in their proper forums.
Richard Hull
Post the system specific stuff in their proper forums.
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Re: Archived - Cameron Key's Fusor Efforts
Monday, Feb. 17, 2014
Hey all, just a quick picture update. I'll keep it brief, as I'll be explaining the pictures on the Fusor Construction and Operation forum in more detail. I've been very busy with school, so there's not a ton to post, but good things are coming soon!
Anyway, a while back the chamber lift decided to bite the dust, so my neighbor Don and I opened it up to assess the damage. Here are some pics:
(Lift removed. This thing wasn't light!)
(Lift mechanism laid out on the operating table)
(Limit switches)
(Thrust bearing. This guy has to take the full 150 pounds of the chamber lid!)
(Slotted rod to trigger the limit switches)
(Overview of mechanism internals. Thrust bearing removed from the baseplate)
(Relubricating the worm gear. Sorry for the poor image quality, my hands were greasy)
(Nuts for calibration on the limit-switch-triggering slotted rod. Spring presumably used to prevent switched from burning)
(Same as above, bottom one. Caliper measurements were taken before removal to insure proper re-calibration.)
(Another look at the slotted rod)
Anyway, we didn't find anything wrong with the lift. No bent teeth, and nothing else that could have prevented it from working. It had been extraordinarily cold for a couple nights before the lift failed, so my assumption is that the cold caused some of the teflon bearings to contract enough that the un-evenly distributed weight of the chamber lid at full extension torqued the load-bearing lift rod to a slight diagonal angle in the new room granted to it by the contracted bearings. The extra friction of the diagonally-lodged load bearing rod put too much strain on the motor and blew a fuse. The only reason it was repeatable was because it continued to stay cold for that week. It's since warmed up, and no problems have been had.
Hey all, just a quick picture update. I'll keep it brief, as I'll be explaining the pictures on the Fusor Construction and Operation forum in more detail. I've been very busy with school, so there's not a ton to post, but good things are coming soon!
Anyway, a while back the chamber lift decided to bite the dust, so my neighbor Don and I opened it up to assess the damage. Here are some pics:
(Lift removed. This thing wasn't light!)
(Lift mechanism laid out on the operating table)
(Limit switches)
(Thrust bearing. This guy has to take the full 150 pounds of the chamber lid!)
(Slotted rod to trigger the limit switches)
(Overview of mechanism internals. Thrust bearing removed from the baseplate)
(Relubricating the worm gear. Sorry for the poor image quality, my hands were greasy)
(Nuts for calibration on the limit-switch-triggering slotted rod. Spring presumably used to prevent switched from burning)
(Same as above, bottom one. Caliper measurements were taken before removal to insure proper re-calibration.)
(Another look at the slotted rod)
Anyway, we didn't find anything wrong with the lift. No bent teeth, and nothing else that could have prevented it from working. It had been extraordinarily cold for a couple nights before the lift failed, so my assumption is that the cold caused some of the teflon bearings to contract enough that the un-evenly distributed weight of the chamber lid at full extension torqued the load-bearing lift rod to a slight diagonal angle in the new room granted to it by the contracted bearings. The extra friction of the diagonally-lodged load bearing rod put too much strain on the motor and blew a fuse. The only reason it was repeatable was because it continued to stay cold for that week. It's since warmed up, and no problems have been had.
Re: Archived - Cameron Key's Fusor Efforts
Wednesday, Feb. 26, 2014
Stainless pipe came today. Construction of the "vacuum arm" to connect the top-facing 8-inch flange of the chamber to the diffusion pump.
I'll post in more detail once I get it done up in CAD.
For now, here's a pic of the pipes!
(Soda Can for reference)
Stainless pipe came today. Construction of the "vacuum arm" to connect the top-facing 8-inch flange of the chamber to the diffusion pump.
I'll post in more detail once I get it done up in CAD.
For now, here's a pic of the pipes!
(Soda Can for reference)
Re: Archived - Cameron Key's Fusor Efforts
Monday, Jul. 28, 2014
Hey y'all!
I'm not dead! Been busy with work and study and lots of trips over the summer. Got a job at the Colorado State University XUV Laser Lab!
Here's some cool stuff:
Stainless "vacuum arm" made from the pipe shown in previous post. Hoping to test it soon! (fingers crossed for a leak-free test!)
The table below it is built to be adjustable to fine tune the height of the large diff. pump (standing in front of the table) in order to reduce stress on the arm, gaskets, and flanges.
My boss also gave me an old PCB from some unknown ancient HV power supply. The thing had some 12kv rated diodes on it. Hoping to put them in series with some balancing resistors across them to rectify my big x-ray tranny.
DC scares the heck out of my though... My boss showed me some of the big HV equipment they have, and said that he's witnessed pollutants and other particles in the transformer oil "flowing" around in the container due to extremely high electric fields between components... Scary stuff if gunk builds up where you don't want it he said!
On the hunt for some very clean transformer oil and a large, cleanable, groundable container.
Here's the board and diodes:
Hey y'all!
I'm not dead! Been busy with work and study and lots of trips over the summer. Got a job at the Colorado State University XUV Laser Lab!
Here's some cool stuff:
Stainless "vacuum arm" made from the pipe shown in previous post. Hoping to test it soon! (fingers crossed for a leak-free test!)
The table below it is built to be adjustable to fine tune the height of the large diff. pump (standing in front of the table) in order to reduce stress on the arm, gaskets, and flanges.
My boss also gave me an old PCB from some unknown ancient HV power supply. The thing had some 12kv rated diodes on it. Hoping to put them in series with some balancing resistors across them to rectify my big x-ray tranny.
DC scares the heck out of my though... My boss showed me some of the big HV equipment they have, and said that he's witnessed pollutants and other particles in the transformer oil "flowing" around in the container due to extremely high electric fields between components... Scary stuff if gunk builds up where you don't want it he said!
On the hunt for some very clean transformer oil and a large, cleanable, groundable container.
Here's the board and diodes:
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Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 15027
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: Archived - Cameron Key's Fusor Efforts
Based on my first glances at those "ancient diodes", I think they my be selenium HV diodes ala B&W TV anode rectifiers, meaning they won't handle a decent load of a fusor and definitely blow with great ease if any minor glitches occur in start up or running.
The TV diodes that I am talking about are about 2 to 2.5 inches long. They are in a non-gloss white ceramic body and may have an ECG number on them. Silly-con diodes of the type you might need are typically in black epoxy bodies.
Richard Hull
The TV diodes that I am talking about are about 2 to 2.5 inches long. They are in a non-gloss white ceramic body and may have an ECG number on them. Silly-con diodes of the type you might need are typically in black epoxy bodies.
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment