Muhammad Faidzul Demo Fusor
-
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:31 pm
- Real name: Muhammad Faidzul
Muhammad Faidzul Demo Fusor
Hello Everyone,
Today I got my demo fusor working. Following are pictures taken during the run.
Plasma pictures:
The Cathode HV tank (taken out of a High frequency X-Ray machine) has a 6.2kohm over 10Mohm voltage divider. I assume it outputs 5volts for its logic circuits measuring maximum voltage.
Doing simple math, HV*(6.2k/(10M+6.2k))=5v. HV= (5*(10M+6.2k))/6.2k =~ 8070v. The tank has a total ov 9 capacitor in series.
So 8070v x 9 = 72630v =~ 72000v. In this picture, I had the meter set to 2.5volt range. So a full scale will read 72000v/2 = 36000v on full scale.
The voltage reading on the fusor at around 31.5mA (according to shunt resistor voltage) is 0.1v which corresponds to (0.1*(10M+6.2k))/6.2k =~ 161.4v x 9 =~ 1452.5v
voltage across 100ohm shunt resistor is around 3.15v. V=IR. I=V/R. I= 3.15v/100ohm = 31.5mA
The vacuum pressure is.. Umm. all the way down.
The central grid mounted on a sparkplug. Please excuse all the sloppy workmanship,
Light blues are simple blutacks bought from stationary for quick sealant. The dark blue ones are silicon gasket makers.
The base plate is 10mm acrylic and the cover is around 3mm thick salad bowl.
The HV tank, IGBT circuit and High frequency driver circuit running at 100kHz. The 100kHz pulse
is supplied by the function generator. These high frequency circuits was initially used to run my Continuous Wave
Tesla Coil.
Plasma at much lower voltage levels.
And finally, my messy overall setup. Note that there are unutilized equipment's on the table as well.
After this my plans are to house keep my setup and save up for a micron pressure gauge to build an actual fusor. Living in a third world country will take some time to save up. But I strive to gain some knowledge that
is always more valuable than money.
Thank you for reading my post. Any help for my future work in building an actual fusor is highly appreciated.
Today I got my demo fusor working. Following are pictures taken during the run.
Plasma pictures:
The Cathode HV tank (taken out of a High frequency X-Ray machine) has a 6.2kohm over 10Mohm voltage divider. I assume it outputs 5volts for its logic circuits measuring maximum voltage.
Doing simple math, HV*(6.2k/(10M+6.2k))=5v. HV= (5*(10M+6.2k))/6.2k =~ 8070v. The tank has a total ov 9 capacitor in series.
So 8070v x 9 = 72630v =~ 72000v. In this picture, I had the meter set to 2.5volt range. So a full scale will read 72000v/2 = 36000v on full scale.
The voltage reading on the fusor at around 31.5mA (according to shunt resistor voltage) is 0.1v which corresponds to (0.1*(10M+6.2k))/6.2k =~ 161.4v x 9 =~ 1452.5v
voltage across 100ohm shunt resistor is around 3.15v. V=IR. I=V/R. I= 3.15v/100ohm = 31.5mA
The vacuum pressure is.. Umm. all the way down.
The central grid mounted on a sparkplug. Please excuse all the sloppy workmanship,
Light blues are simple blutacks bought from stationary for quick sealant. The dark blue ones are silicon gasket makers.
The base plate is 10mm acrylic and the cover is around 3mm thick salad bowl.
The HV tank, IGBT circuit and High frequency driver circuit running at 100kHz. The 100kHz pulse
is supplied by the function generator. These high frequency circuits was initially used to run my Continuous Wave
Tesla Coil.
Plasma at much lower voltage levels.
And finally, my messy overall setup. Note that there are unutilized equipment's on the table as well.
After this my plans are to house keep my setup and save up for a micron pressure gauge to build an actual fusor. Living in a third world country will take some time to save up. But I strive to gain some knowledge that
is always more valuable than money.
Thank you for reading my post. Any help for my future work in building an actual fusor is highly appreciated.
- Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 15024
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: Muhammad Faidzul Demo Fusor
Great work! While you fusor is crude and the vacuum not great, you have taken the time to instrument well and report accurately. This is something only a tiny fraction of first pass plasma folks bother with. You have done well and your instrumentation will guide you in learning the way a plasma functions as your vacuum gets better.
I spent one full year with fusor I and II before ever attempting fusion, just studying the glow discharge and plasma characteristics.
I have entered you into the plasma club.
Richard Hull
I spent one full year with fusor I and II before ever attempting fusion, just studying the glow discharge and plasma characteristics.
I have entered you into the plasma club.
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
-
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:31 pm
- Real name: Muhammad Faidzul
Re: Muhammad Faidzul Demo Fusor
Thank you Mr. Richard.
The voltage in the chamber is saturated at around 1500v. I guess it shows that my chamber does not have enough gas evacuated to increase the breakdown voltage between the grids. I have read somewhere if the vacuum is perfect, the voltage should saturate at the maximum voltage that the power supply could provide since no current could flow.
I was thinking weather i can make a two plate capacitor probe, apply some voltage across it and read the current value to determine the vacuum. Then stick the probe in the chamber and compare it with sticking the probe direct into my vacuum pump outlet for comparison. By reading the current drained, i can figure out weather my chamber is leaking.
- Muhammad
The voltage in the chamber is saturated at around 1500v. I guess it shows that my chamber does not have enough gas evacuated to increase the breakdown voltage between the grids. I have read somewhere if the vacuum is perfect, the voltage should saturate at the maximum voltage that the power supply could provide since no current could flow.
I was thinking weather i can make a two plate capacitor probe, apply some voltage across it and read the current value to determine the vacuum. Then stick the probe in the chamber and compare it with sticking the probe direct into my vacuum pump outlet for comparison. By reading the current drained, i can figure out weather my chamber is leaking.
- Muhammad
- Noah C Hoppis
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:05 pm
- Real name: Noah C Hoppis
Re: Muhammad Faidzul Demo Fusor
The electrical conductivity of a gas at a given pressure is characterised by paschen's law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law). The mechanics involved can be somewhat complex, but in effect at 'high' pressures voltage breakdown is proportional to pressure, but at low pressures this relationship becomes strongly inverse.
What you just described is, in effect, a cold cathode ionization gauge, but operating under a different mechanism. CCIG's (and ionization gauges in general) have to rely on the ions actually moving to conduct a current, because paschen's law dictates at these low pressures an electrical discharge cannot strike directly across a chain of atoms (because there is not really a chain of atoms together, the pressure is too low). So a CCIG actually ionizes atoms on the plate of the 'capacitor' (or in very short range) and then uses the field between the two plates to transport the ion across the gap and conduct a current. Because the current relies on the availability of atoms in the electric field, the current in an ionization gauge is proportional to the pressure.
While CCIG's are excellent for measuring high(er) vacuums, they tend to not play as nice around the vacuum level you are describing in your chamber (due to continuous discharge). Normally CCIG's, inverted magnetron gauges, and the like start to function below the point that a thermocouple gauge pegs. Instead of building an ionization type gauge first, I would recommend either procuring a TC gauge (normally dirt cheap, around $10 US is all I would ever pay for one) and characterizing it or building a full TC gauge from scratch (as described here: http://www.belljar.net/tcgauge.htm).
What you just described is, in effect, a cold cathode ionization gauge, but operating under a different mechanism. CCIG's (and ionization gauges in general) have to rely on the ions actually moving to conduct a current, because paschen's law dictates at these low pressures an electrical discharge cannot strike directly across a chain of atoms (because there is not really a chain of atoms together, the pressure is too low). So a CCIG actually ionizes atoms on the plate of the 'capacitor' (or in very short range) and then uses the field between the two plates to transport the ion across the gap and conduct a current. Because the current relies on the availability of atoms in the electric field, the current in an ionization gauge is proportional to the pressure.
While CCIG's are excellent for measuring high(er) vacuums, they tend to not play as nice around the vacuum level you are describing in your chamber (due to continuous discharge). Normally CCIG's, inverted magnetron gauges, and the like start to function below the point that a thermocouple gauge pegs. Instead of building an ionization type gauge first, I would recommend either procuring a TC gauge (normally dirt cheap, around $10 US is all I would ever pay for one) and characterizing it or building a full TC gauge from scratch (as described here: http://www.belljar.net/tcgauge.htm).
"No missile ever flew before 10 pm"
- Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 15024
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: Muhammad Faidzul Demo Fusor
Good advice from Noah. With only a mechanical pump, a Thermocouple gauge is a must have item.
Richard Hull
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
- Rich Feldman
- Posts: 1471
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:59 pm
- Real name: Rich Feldman
- Location: Santa Clara County, CA, USA
Re: Muhammad Faidzul Demo Fusor
Looks real good, Muhammad.
Are your X-ray transformer tanks from a Bennett system? They look just like mine, acquired almost 2 years ago. Yet another unfinished project, practically untouched since the last report here: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9781&p=65697 You are way ahead of me on 100 kHz power inverters. Mind sharing your bridge and driver circuit details? How come you chose to use IGBTs? Is it all scratch-built, or made from boards available in Tesla coil hobby circles?
p.s. I thought God gave advice _to_ Noah.
Are your X-ray transformer tanks from a Bennett system? They look just like mine, acquired almost 2 years ago. Yet another unfinished project, practically untouched since the last report here: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9781&p=65697 You are way ahead of me on 100 kHz power inverters. Mind sharing your bridge and driver circuit details? How come you chose to use IGBTs? Is it all scratch-built, or made from boards available in Tesla coil hobby circles?
p.s. I thought God gave advice _to_ Noah.
All models are wrong; some models are useful. -- George Box
-
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:31 pm
- Real name: Muhammad Faidzul
Re: Muhammad Faidzul Demo Fusor
Thank you Mr. Noah for your reply.Noah C Hoppis wrote:The electrical conductivity of a gas at a given pressure is characterised by paschen's law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law). The mechanics involved can be somewhat complex, but in effect at 'high' pressures voltage breakdown is proportional to pressure, but at low pressures this relationship becomes strongly inverse.
What you just described is, in effect, a cold cathode ionization gauge, but operating under a different mechanism. CCIG's (and ionization gauges in general) have to rely on the ions actually moving to conduct a current, because paschen's law dictates at these low pressures an electrical discharge cannot strike directly across a chain of atoms (because there is not really a chain of atoms together, the pressure is too low). So a CCIG actually ionizes atoms on the plate of the 'capacitor' (or in very short range) and then uses the field between the two plates to transport the ion across the gap and conduct a current. Because the current relies on the availability of atoms in the electric field, the current in an ionization gauge is proportional to the pressure.
While CCIG's are excellent for measuring high(er) vacuums, they tend to not play as nice around the vacuum level you are describing in your chamber (due to continuous discharge). Normally CCIG's, inverted magnetron gauges, and the like start to function below the point that a thermocouple gauge pegs. Instead of building an ionization type gauge first, I would recommend either procuring a TC gauge (normally dirt cheap, around $10 US is all I would ever pay for one) and characterizing it or building a full TC gauge from scratch (as described here: http://www.belljar.net/tcgauge.htm).
I realized that calling the plates 'capacitor' was way off. should have called it electrodes instead since it wasn't for storing charges anyway. lol. I remember the last time i read about paschens law on wiki. it took me weeks to understand it because i couldn't read a few sentence without falling asleep.
The thermocouple gauge seems like a nice and achievable project using some parts available lying around. thanks for recommending. Its simpler than it sounds. I don't think I'm going to buy anything yet. Better save money for a better option like this one: https://www.jbtoolsales.com/cps-product ... n-microns/ <--- Is it good enough for fusion vacuums?
I'm already regretting buying a 1 stage pump. Should have bought 2 stage from the start. I'm afraid a 1 stage pump couldn't support a diffusion pump.
Lol. Not sure if its a typo or a figured out punRichard Hull wrote:God advice from Noah. With only a mechanical pump, a Thermocouple gauge is a must have item.
Richard Hull
Yes, Its from a Bennett system. Yours looks so clean. Mine is soaked in transformer oil. I drove it at 100kHz because that's what the brochure says so. It works fine. But i have never turned it on more than 1 minute since i was aware that the system wasn't designed for long run. Plus the resistor on the IGBT board got hot and kept releasing unpleasant cooking smell. By reverse engineering the kVp board, i could understand that, it runs on some form of PWM. its kind of weird for me because it was the first time i saw a full bridge inverter using PWM to adjust its voltage output. I didn't choose to use IGBT's. But it was lying around since the whole machine was disposed off. So it was basically free for me. I tried driving the Gate Drive Transformer (GDT) using a car audio amplifier that was lying around earlier that time, but the GDTs impedance was too low causing insufficient power from the audio amplifier, which caused significant voltage drop of Gate voltage thus could damage IGBT's at high power.Rich Feldman wrote:Looks real good, Muhammad.
Are your X-ray transformer tanks from a Bennett system? They look just like mine, acquired almost 2 years ago. Yet another unfinished project, practically untouched since the last report here: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9781&p=65697 You are way ahead of me on 100 kHz power inverters. Mind sharing your bridge and driver circuit details? How come you chose to use IGBTs? Is it all scratch-built, or made from boards available in Tesla coil hobby circles?
p.s. I thought God gave advice _to_ Noah.
The small board you see is only a fraction taken from the original kVp board that is responsible for driving the GDT. I sketched it on a piece of paper last time, but i think someone threw it away (maybe it was me). I designed the board in Eagle PCB. I'll send the Eagle pcb file to you once i could find it if you like.
- Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 15024
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: Muhammad Faidzul Demo Fusor
No need to keep quoting other folks posts in this thread. We can and have read all of the thread. Tons of quotes and little new text is a tiresome and tedious and often an odius effort for the reader.
I have corrected my mis-typed post.
Richard Hull
I have corrected my mis-typed post.
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
-
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:31 pm
- Real name: Muhammad Faidzul
Re: Muhammad Faidzul Demo Fusor
Ok, understood and noted.
-
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:31 pm
- Real name: Muhammad Faidzul
Re: Muhammad Faidzul Demo Fusor
Hi, So I bought this diffusion pump on ebay. Order was made 1st Nov, shipment on 10th Nov, received on 29 Nov.
I bought it because it was the cheapest yet i could find and it was the same one used by robofusor http://robofusor.haylett.ca/robofusor-2 ... cuum-pump/
By visual inspection, it looks good. But I need some advice from professionals since i have zero experience in diffusion pumps.
I have not tested the unit yet because I lack a step-down transformer and diffusion pump oil. Plus I doubt my Chinese 1 stage pump would be sufficient for roughing.
Any advices are highly appreciated.
I bought it because it was the cheapest yet i could find and it was the same one used by robofusor http://robofusor.haylett.ca/robofusor-2 ... cuum-pump/
By visual inspection, it looks good. But I need some advice from professionals since i have zero experience in diffusion pumps.
I have not tested the unit yet because I lack a step-down transformer and diffusion pump oil. Plus I doubt my Chinese 1 stage pump would be sufficient for roughing.
Any advices are highly appreciated.
- Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 15024
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: Muhammad Faidzul Demo Fusor
Nice rather clean unit and the air cooling is a real plus. The bellows valve is worth the entire price by itself. Instructions on diff pump usage and startup methods in the FAQs.
Richard Hull
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
-
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:31 pm
- Real name: Muhammad Faidzul
Re: Muhammad Faidzul Demo Fusor
Hi Richard,
Yes, I guess I was lucky to stumble across this unit. I've been watching ebay nearly every day for the past couple of months just to stare at even the cheapest price unit (RM1200++) which I could not afford with my currency. Just for comparison, RM700 (item+shipping+tax of my unit) is around 1/3rd starting monthly salary of a graduated engineer in my country.
Currently im looking for neutron counters. I am thinking of buying those russian tubes and make my own circuit. I think i found a document in here somewhere with instructions on how to build it.
So today I tested the heater on my diffusion pump.
So far the device seems good. I already left a 5 star rating to the seller.
Next I would need to save up to buy the oil. according to robofusor, it requires 50cc of oil. I found on ebay 100ml DC-704 for RM245. time to save up.
Yes, I guess I was lucky to stumble across this unit. I've been watching ebay nearly every day for the past couple of months just to stare at even the cheapest price unit (RM1200++) which I could not afford with my currency. Just for comparison, RM700 (item+shipping+tax of my unit) is around 1/3rd starting monthly salary of a graduated engineer in my country.
Currently im looking for neutron counters. I am thinking of buying those russian tubes and make my own circuit. I think i found a document in here somewhere with instructions on how to build it.
So today I tested the heater on my diffusion pump.
So far the device seems good. I already left a 5 star rating to the seller.
Next I would need to save up to buy the oil. according to robofusor, it requires 50cc of oil. I found on ebay 100ml DC-704 for RM245. time to save up.
- Rich Feldman
- Posts: 1471
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:59 pm
- Real name: Rich Feldman
- Location: Santa Clara County, CA, USA
Re: Muhammad Faidzul Demo Fusor
What a great idea, testing diffusion pump chamber and heater by using it as an electric teakettle.
I hope that some day, you can tell your children the story of the round burn on table top. May that be the worst damage you suffer from electrical accidents.
I hope that some day, you can tell your children the story of the round burn on table top. May that be the worst damage you suffer from electrical accidents.
All models are wrong; some models are useful. -- George Box
-
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:31 pm
- Real name: Muhammad Faidzul
Re: Muhammad Faidzul Demo Fusor
I don't think this is the worse accident yet. A few months ago, I set my Tesla Coil secondary capacitor (made out of thin aluminum exhaust fan duct) on fire. It had two toroids stack on top of the other. When turned on, it arced between those two due to poor connection and caught fire. In a panic, I can only think about blowing it out. After giving two very hard blow, luckily it extinguished
-
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:31 pm
- Real name: Muhammad Faidzul
Re: Muhammad Faidzul Demo Fusor
Hi..
Its been a year and a half since my last post. Unfortunately i haven't been able to gather enough resources to build an actual fusor. Im still at plasma stage and have been playing with plasma since. I did manage to buy a vacuum gauge to measure my vacuum chamber and found out it was an awful setup. Lol
However, i did some experiments concerning plasma behaviour and ion thrusters. I would like to share a video i compiled that explains the setup. Your feedback is highly appreciated. Thanks
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wEpoXu7_HxA
Its been a year and a half since my last post. Unfortunately i haven't been able to gather enough resources to build an actual fusor. Im still at plasma stage and have been playing with plasma since. I did manage to buy a vacuum gauge to measure my vacuum chamber and found out it was an awful setup. Lol
However, i did some experiments concerning plasma behaviour and ion thrusters. I would like to share a video i compiled that explains the setup. Your feedback is highly appreciated. Thanks
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wEpoXu7_HxA
- Dennis P Brown
- Posts: 3187
- Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 10:46 am
- Real name: Dennis Brown
Re: Muhammad Faidzul Demo Fusor
Do not rule out local sources. Sometimes local places have equipment that they need to get rid of - refrigeration companies. They throw out small tanks that could be converted into a chamber with some cutting and welding; also, they might have an old vacuum pump they'd sell cheap. Of course, universities (see if they have the ability to let you test stuff there) and maybe they, if a private school, do at times, sell surplus equipment.
I got some nice NST's at a demolition site, once. Even a small varaic in a garbage dump (!) - I was salvaging old refrig compressors for a project related to studying cooling gasses and came across it.
I got some nice NST's at a demolition site, once. Even a small varaic in a garbage dump (!) - I was salvaging old refrig compressors for a project related to studying cooling gasses and came across it.