CF, KF, ISO, and the odd flange blues
- Finn Hammer
- Posts: 298
- Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:21 am
- Real name: Finn Hammer
- Contact:
CF, KF, ISO, and the odd flange blues
I an supposed to report slight advances in the fusor build, so here goes:
Vacuum technology is full of surprises, and identifying which flange comes with what part, is the mother of them all.
I set out to create an all CF flange system, only to find early on, that there is an unidentifiable flange on the diff. pump already. Most of the other parts have conflat, but then the butterfly valve from Nissan Seiki arrived, with yet another odd flange, so now I give up!
I drilled the body of the valve into a swiss cheese and tapped it with 8mm metric threads to match whatever odd flanges I had, so now I must rely on buna for a leak proof system.
Just doing small advances in Denmark,
Cheers, Finn Hammer
Vacuum technology is full of surprises, and identifying which flange comes with what part, is the mother of them all.
I set out to create an all CF flange system, only to find early on, that there is an unidentifiable flange on the diff. pump already. Most of the other parts have conflat, but then the butterfly valve from Nissan Seiki arrived, with yet another odd flange, so now I give up!
I drilled the body of the valve into a swiss cheese and tapped it with 8mm metric threads to match whatever odd flanges I had, so now I must rely on buna for a leak proof system.
Just doing small advances in Denmark,
Cheers, Finn Hammer
- Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 14991
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: CF, KF, ISO, and the odd flange blues
Stainless is easy to drill if you.
1. Choose the right "sharp" drill......
2. Calculate and provide the correct RPM (cutting speed)
3. Use a proper lubricant
Too many folks just bull head drilling in SS. This typically results in dulled and ruined drills that just heat the piece being drilled.
I am glad you are doing it correctly.
Richard Hull
1. Choose the right "sharp" drill......
2. Calculate and provide the correct RPM (cutting speed)
3. Use a proper lubricant
Too many folks just bull head drilling in SS. This typically results in dulled and ruined drills that just heat the piece being drilled.
I am glad you are doing it correctly.
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
- Bob Reite
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:03 pm
- Real name: Bob Reite
- Location: Wilkes Barre/Scranton area
Re: CF, KF, ISO, and the odd flange blues
I just did a project with a lot of holes in SS. Proper cutting speed is the key. 75 SFM is a good speed for 316 stainless, as compared to 150 SFM for 1040 carbon steel. Take the time to calculate the correct RPM for the size drill you are using and set your machine accordingly. The other important thing is to keep heavy pressure to keep it cutting! The drill should be throwing a nice chip or "ribbon" as shown in the photo. Don't let the bit "rub" in the hole or it will work harden and you are "done", as in "fail". However you may need to back off the pressure just as the bit is about to break through the workpiece so it doesn't jam.
The more reactive the materials, the more spectacular the failures.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
Re: CF, KF, ISO, and the odd flange blues
Beyond what you've just said, what advice would you give for drilling stainless with handheld drills, or for bulk dremelling of it?
- Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 14991
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: CF, KF, ISO, and the odd flange blues
It is all about the tool and speed, as noted above. Hand drills are almost out of the equation as the speed is tough to control and lateral play can dull and heat the bit to a worthless state.
A drill press is a must in most all cases, if you don't want to have a lot of fresh, spare drill bits of the size you need on hand. Really thick piece SS boring demands a good drill press, especially if a lot of holes are to be drilled.
Dremel tool work should also have a bit of speed control ability or the grinding tool will wear away or clog rapidly.
Naturally, always wear eye protection..
Richard Hull
A drill press is a must in most all cases, if you don't want to have a lot of fresh, spare drill bits of the size you need on hand. Really thick piece SS boring demands a good drill press, especially if a lot of holes are to be drilled.
Dremel tool work should also have a bit of speed control ability or the grinding tool will wear away or clog rapidly.
Naturally, always wear eye protection..
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Re: CF, KF, ISO, and the odd flange blues
I... Really need to get out of this apartment.
I did successfully add a KF16 sidearm to a large reducing adapter. That was difficult and messy.
I did successfully add a KF16 sidearm to a large reducing adapter. That was difficult and messy.
- Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 14991
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: CF, KF, ISO, and the odd flange blues
A sufficient, appartment sized drill press, (24" tall), can be had from Harbor Freight in the U.S. for about $60.00. This table top, small drill press is a fairly nice little Chicom product that is not superlative but usable and makes a great "quick and dirty" backup drill press for a future purchase of a superlative example once out of the appartment. I recently bought the above little drill press for a new wood working building delivered to my property and it is surprisingly nice and handy. A drill press, no matter how small or inexpensive, beats the finest hand drill when fighting special deep drilling efforts in SS.
I decided to move and mount all of my wood working efforts in the new building. All manner of wood work used to be carried out in my main lab building. All the tooling and lumber is now out of the main lab as is all the sawdust debris attending same.
Richard Hull
I decided to move and mount all of my wood working efforts in the new building. All manner of wood work used to be carried out in my main lab building. All the tooling and lumber is now out of the main lab as is all the sawdust debris attending same.
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
- Finn Hammer
- Posts: 298
- Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:21 am
- Real name: Finn Hammer
- Contact:
Re: CF, KF, ISO, and the odd flange blues
It was the shift to Fusor as a hobby that convinced me to also move the table saw and other woodworking activity out of the shop. Now I vacuum clean every time I have made a mess at the bench, and it feels really good.Richard Hull wrote: I decided to move and mount all of my wood working efforts in the new building. All manner of wood work used to be carried out in my main lab building. All the tooling and lumber is now out of the main lab as is all the sawdust debris attending same.
Richard Hull
Cheers, Finn hammer
- Andrew Robinson
- Moderator
- Posts: 688
- Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:54 am
- Real name: Andrew Robinson
- Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
- Contact:
Re: CF, KF, ISO, and the odd flange blues
I remember your new building being complete last October, however, I don't think you had much moved over yet. Sounds like this freed up a LOT of space in your main shop. Looking forward to seeing the changes. I'm sure you can squeeze everyone in there a lot more comfortably now for presentations.Richard Hull wrote:I decided to move and mount all of my wood working efforts in the new building. All manner of wood work used to be carried out in my main lab building. All the tooling and lumber is now out of the main lab as is all the sawdust debris attending same.
I can wire anything directly into anything! I'm the professor!
- Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 14991
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: CF, KF, ISO, and the odd flange blues
Absolutely 0.0000 extra free space in the main lab. The tooling removed to the new building came from storage under some of the main lab benches. I used to have to drag out the table saw and skill saw, saber saw, jig saw, and the chop saw from under the benches to the outside long table to work wood, Now all of that is mounted on permanent bench work in the new building. I also removed the large bandsaw from one of the lab benches to the new building.....
I did not move one my two larger drill presses out of the main lab, but instead, bench mounted that nice little, cute, 24" Harbor Freight drill press I had bought a year ago stored in its original box out to the new building. After all, it's just boring through wood. (As noted above, it will do metal as well.)
So, yes, I do have more room in the lab for folks if they don't mind sitting in a fetal position under the benches in the lab or in the fetal position on a bench top. The main lab still contains all of its usual charm and clutter.
Richard Hull
I did not move one my two larger drill presses out of the main lab, but instead, bench mounted that nice little, cute, 24" Harbor Freight drill press I had bought a year ago stored in its original box out to the new building. After all, it's just boring through wood. (As noted above, it will do metal as well.)
So, yes, I do have more room in the lab for folks if they don't mind sitting in a fetal position under the benches in the lab or in the fetal position on a bench top. The main lab still contains all of its usual charm and clutter.
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
- Rich Feldman
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:59 pm
- Real name: Rich Feldman
- Location: Santa Clara County, CA, USA
Re: CF, KF, ISO, and the odd flange blues
Nice work there, Finn. Not sure if your drill-with-curly-chips pictures are dynamic (where are the oil and the smoke?) or a well-staged static view.
Re. tools & methods for cutting stainless steel. I think the amount of work is roughly proportional to the newly formed surface area of chips, shavings, swarf, or sparks and dust.
Don't forget hole saws. This thread has some good pictures. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10954&p=72543 . I've hole-sawed mild steel more than 3/4" thick without surprises. The proper spindle RPM for stainless might well be a number with only two digits. Don't hold the workpiece in place with your hands.
For thin material, don't forget punches. Can make holes much faster & more accurately located than drilling. The Roper Whitney No. 5 Jr punch has the same design today as it did when introduced to me in 1974, before the name started with Roper. I used mine last night. Will have to try it on 0.062" stainless -- the mfr's tables say it ought to work. https://www.roperwhitney.com/tonnage/
Re. tools & methods for cutting stainless steel. I think the amount of work is roughly proportional to the newly formed surface area of chips, shavings, swarf, or sparks and dust.
Don't forget hole saws. This thread has some good pictures. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10954&p=72543 . I've hole-sawed mild steel more than 3/4" thick without surprises. The proper spindle RPM for stainless might well be a number with only two digits. Don't hold the workpiece in place with your hands.
For thin material, don't forget punches. Can make holes much faster & more accurately located than drilling. The Roper Whitney No. 5 Jr punch has the same design today as it did when introduced to me in 1974, before the name started with Roper. I used mine last night. Will have to try it on 0.062" stainless -- the mfr's tables say it ought to work. https://www.roperwhitney.com/tonnage/
All models are wrong; some models are useful. -- George Box
-
- Posts: 975
- Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:08 am
- Real name:
- Location: Beaverton, OR
Re: CF, KF, ISO, and the odd flange blues
Stainless is easy to work as long as you make sure when cutting and drilling that you do not let up on cutting pressure and let the tool rub instead of cut. Stainless work hardens immediately which usually means frying a tool or getting out some carbide.
Also, cutting fluid is not a lubricant, it is actually the opposite, it encourages metal to metal contact while keeping chips from welding to the tool or to the work and drawing the heat away. Don't try to use stuff like oil, it can make things worse than trying to cut dry. I use the green synthetic LPS Tapmagic for hand stuff. For the bandsaw I use one of the cutting wax sticks and for the cnc mill and lathe I use Trico TC-1 with a Bujur misting system. Though for lathe and mill work a lot of stainless stuff is cut dry with modern tool coatings.
Also, cutting fluid is not a lubricant, it is actually the opposite, it encourages metal to metal contact while keeping chips from welding to the tool or to the work and drawing the heat away. Don't try to use stuff like oil, it can make things worse than trying to cut dry. I use the green synthetic LPS Tapmagic for hand stuff. For the bandsaw I use one of the cutting wax sticks and for the cnc mill and lathe I use Trico TC-1 with a Bujur misting system. Though for lathe and mill work a lot of stainless stuff is cut dry with modern tool coatings.
- Bob Reite
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:03 pm
- Real name: Bob Reite
- Location: Wilkes Barre/Scranton area
Re: CF, KF, ISO, and the odd flange blues
LPS Tapmatic is great stuff!
The more reactive the materials, the more spectacular the failures.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
- Finn Hammer
- Posts: 298
- Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:21 am
- Real name: Finn Hammer
- Contact:
Re: CF, KF, ISO, and the odd flange blues
Rick,
The pictures are staged indeed, with a twist!
What you see is not the drilling operation, instead I wanted to show off the fancy Titanium coated, spirally fluted 8mm metric threading tap, making its way to the bottom of the hole lubricated by Rocol cutting paste, the brown stuff you see at the edge of the hole.
Cheers, Finn Hammer
The pictures are staged indeed, with a twist!
What you see is not the drilling operation, instead I wanted to show off the fancy Titanium coated, spirally fluted 8mm metric threading tap, making its way to the bottom of the hole lubricated by Rocol cutting paste, the brown stuff you see at the edge of the hole.
Cheers, Finn Hammer