Say hello to my little (HV) friends

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John Myers
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Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by John Myers »

I checked for the input voltage specs on the 130KV Voltronics supplies but don't see any. I'll try my luck and try to contact the company and see if they'll give up and information on it.

The device with the thyratron also had a large capacitor in it.
HY-3202
HY-3202
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by Dennis P Brown »

While little can be determined from a single picture of wires going to a transformer - I would speculate (i.e. wild guess) that the two black wires feeding the main transformer could indicate single phase 120 Volt or maybe, 208 volt. Of course, those wires may be sense wires or something else entirely. Maybe more pictures of the transformer and its layout system and any other related lead attachment points might help others here make a more intelligent determination than my unsubstantiated guess.
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Richard Hull
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Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by Richard Hull »

That rather modern EG&G deuterium thyratron needs about 15 amps for the filament and can switch over 20,000 amps at 32,000 volts. A 640 megawatt peak pulse tube. A microsecond or so pulse, of course.

Try and switch that with silly-con! EG&G was bought out, it is now Perkin Elmer Corp. The tube still seems to be available. I have a large number of H2 and D2 thyratrons, having used a few in Tesla coils and a water arc gun to replace the spark gap.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
John Myers
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Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by John Myers »

It's hard for me to even envision a 20,000 amp pulse. I wont be generating 20KA pulses anytime soon... or ever, but at least I'll have a thyratron with lots of 'headroom'.

In order to get some pictures of the transformer I tried taking the 130KV supply apart from the bottom so I wouldn't have to disassemble the whole thing. But of course there was a single rusted bolt keeping me from doing that so these pictures are the best I can do until I have time to dissemble it.
The wire at 12o'clock is soldered to the core.<br />The wires at 6o'clock (one visible) look like they branch of in a 'Y' connection, one to each side.
The wire at 12o'clock is soldered to the core.
The wires at 6o'clock (one visible) look like they branch of in a 'Y' connection, one to each side.
The two wires that go to one of the secondaries.
The two wires that go to one of the secondaries.
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The wire at the top is the other secondary
The wire at the top is the other secondary
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by Dennis P Brown »

The best bet as you already mentioned, is call and talk to someone at a company that knows about this transformer. However, if the company is either no longer in business or no one still has knowledge of this system, then maybe testing is a possible method.

Certainly looks like it was rigged for a specific voltage output (at what frequency is a question I do not know how to address); one could test to see what the x-former does if a very low AC voltage is applied. Might need to be under oil, however, to protect the transformer. Not that I am saying these are the only courses of action. I am sure others will have more ideas.
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Richard Hull
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Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by Richard Hull »

Multi-kiloamp pulses are fairly easy to obtain and do not require much power input to produce, provided one knows what they are doing and has instruments in hand capable of measuring the pulse. The secret is in a low impedance source for voltage and ultra-low inductance in the circuit that the pulse occurs in.

It is all about watt-seconds (joules). If I charge a capacitor to 10kv and shunt it into a 10 ohm impeadance and that pulse produces 1,000 amps of peak measured current for 1 micro-second, then assuming the voltage stayed up throughout the pulse, (big assumption), the result is a 10 megawatt peak power blast. How many joules or watt-seconds is that? .......it is 10 real watts. Due to losses you might have had to put as much a 100 watts of real power into the capacitor. Thus, high currents that boggle the mind are easy to obtain with less than 100 watts of input. When I say easy, it is easy to folks who know about such things, just like fusion is easy to do by folks who know about such things.

I knew a fellow engineer who used to say that microwaves and pulsed power systems, at the engineering, level showed little differentiation between its successful implimentation and black magic.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Jerry Biehler
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Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by Jerry Biehler »

I think I actually have the correct transformer for that thyratron lying around someplace. You also need to supply power to the reservoir heater as well.

I pulled one out of an old excimer laser for LASIK.
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by Dennis P Brown »

I see what the 130 kV x-former can be used for, but what does one do with such a massive thyratron?!
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Richard Hull
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Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by Richard Hull »

One uses the thyratron to switch mega-watt pulses. Obviously critically needed in whatever this Universal Voltronics system was given birth to do.

Thyratrons of this ilk are built to "take it on the chin". No glass jaws here. If you go shopping for one of these, new, just the tube will be between 1 and 2 kilobucks. Be prepared for feed a reservoir voltage of 2-6 volts with 10 amps and a filament of 6-10 volts with ~20 amps. In smaller 500 kilo-watt, glass thyratrons, the reservoir was usually in parallel with the filament, needing only a single high current, low voltage Xfrmr.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Roberto Ferrari
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Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by Roberto Ferrari »

Am I wrong or that thyratron has a bent pin?
John Myers
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Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by John Myers »

The HTR and RES pins were both a little bent. Luckily the vent port wasn't bent or the D2 magic could have leaked out. The device is heavy so I think people picking it up would end up pressing against the pins causing them to bend.
Roberto Ferrari
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Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by Roberto Ferrari »

John

A crack in any of the ceramic-metal seals would impair the hermeticity.
John Myers
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Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by John Myers »

That's good point. I was thinking along the lines of the vent tube being punctured/cracked.
The 'pins' you see are more of a terminal block that fit over the actual pin and have a set screw to attach to the pin. I'll remove it tonight and do a closer inspection.
John Myers
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Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by John Myers »

The thyratron had a little ceramic chipped away by the pins but it doesn't look deep enough to be a problem.

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I got this Xray transformer earlier in the year off of Craigslist. The dentist even gave it to me for free when I told her it was for my electronics hobby.
I don't see any voltage/current specs. Does anyone have an educated guess in what they might be?

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John Myers
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Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by John Myers »

The inside of the spark gap transformer only had a transformer in it. It was already drained of oil.
I suppose the instructions on the case were for whatever system/unit it was part of.
Inside of spark Gap Transformer
Inside of spark Gap Transformer
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