Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Current images of fusor efforts, components, etc. Try to continuously update from your name, a current photo using edit function. Title post with your name once only. Change image and text as needed. See first posting for details.
John Myers
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:13 am
Real name:
Location: SoCal

Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by John Myers » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:35 am

I checked for the input voltage specs on the 130KV Voltronics supplies but don't see any. I'll try my luck and try to contact the company and see if they'll give up and information on it.

The device with the thyratron also had a large capacitor in it.
IMG_20171105_154546164.jpg
HY-3202
IMG_20171105_155433450.jpg
IMG_20171105_163047286.jpg
IMG_20171105_163218023.jpg
IMG_20171105_163331617_BURST000_COVER_TOP.jpg

User avatar
Dennis P Brown
Posts: 1700
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 2:46 pm
Real name: Dennis P Brown
Location: Glen Arm, MD

Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by Dennis P Brown » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:12 am

While little can be determined from a single picture of wires going to a transformer - I would speculate (i.e. wild guess) that the two black wires feeding the main transformer could indicate single phase 120 Volt or maybe, 208 volt. Of course, those wires may be sense wires or something else entirely. Maybe more pictures of the transformer and its layout system and any other related lead attachment points might help others here make a more intelligent determination than my unsubstantiated guess.

User avatar
Richard Hull
Moderator
Posts: 11345
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 1:44 pm
Real name: Richard Hull

Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by Richard Hull » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:12 pm

That rather modern EG&G deuterium thyratron needs about 15 amps for the filament and can switch over 20,000 amps at 32,000 volts. A 640 megawatt peak pulse tube. A microsecond or so pulse, of course.

Try and switch that with silly-con! EG&G was bought out, it is now Perkin Elmer Corp. The tube still seems to be available. I have a large number of H2 and D2 thyratrons, having used a few in Tesla coils and a water arc gun to replace the spark gap.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

John Myers
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:13 am
Real name:
Location: SoCal

Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by John Myers » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:56 am

It's hard for me to even envision a 20,000 amp pulse. I wont be generating 20KA pulses anytime soon... or ever, but at least I'll have a thyratron with lots of 'headroom'.

In order to get some pictures of the transformer I tried taking the 130KV supply apart from the bottom so I wouldn't have to disassemble the whole thing. But of course there was a single rusted bolt keeping me from doing that so these pictures are the best I can do until I have time to dissemble it.
IMG_20171106_153924726.jpg
The wire at 12o'clock is soldered to the core.
The wires at 6o'clock (one visible) look like they branch of in a 'Y' connection, one to each side.
IMG_20171106_154009312.jpg
The two wires that go to one of the secondaries.
IMG_20171106_154035214.jpg
IMG_20171106_232710453.jpg
The wire at the top is the other secondary

User avatar
Dennis P Brown
Posts: 1700
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 2:46 pm
Real name: Dennis P Brown
Location: Glen Arm, MD

Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by Dennis P Brown » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:55 am

The best bet as you already mentioned, is call and talk to someone at a company that knows about this transformer. However, if the company is either no longer in business or no one still has knowledge of this system, then maybe testing is a possible method.

Certainly looks like it was rigged for a specific voltage output (at what frequency is a question I do not know how to address); one could test to see what the x-former does if a very low AC voltage is applied. Might need to be under oil, however, to protect the transformer. Not that I am saying these are the only courses of action. I am sure others will have more ideas.

User avatar
Richard Hull
Moderator
Posts: 11345
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 1:44 pm
Real name: Richard Hull

Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by Richard Hull » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:05 pm

Multi-kiloamp pulses are fairly easy to obtain and do not require much power input to produce, provided one knows what they are doing and has instruments in hand capable of measuring the pulse. The secret is in a low impedance source for voltage and ultra-low inductance in the circuit that the pulse occurs in.

It is all about watt-seconds (joules). If I charge a capacitor to 10kv and shunt it into a 10 ohm impeadance and that pulse produces 1,000 amps of peak measured current for 1 micro-second, then assuming the voltage stayed up throughout the pulse, (big assumption), the result is a 10 megawatt peak power blast. How many joules or watt-seconds is that? .......it is 10 real watts. Due to losses you might have had to put as much a 100 watts of real power into the capacitor. Thus, high currents that boggle the mind are easy to obtain with less than 100 watts of input. When I say easy, it is easy to folks who know about such things, just like fusion is easy to do by folks who know about such things.

I knew a fellow engineer who used to say that microwaves and pulsed power systems, at the engineering, level showed little differentiation between its successful implimentation and black magic.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

Jerry Biehler
Posts: 857
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:08 am
Real name:
Location: Beaverton, OR

Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by Jerry Biehler » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:59 am

I think I actually have the correct transformer for that thyratron lying around someplace. You also need to supply power to the reservoir heater as well.

I pulled one out of an old excimer laser for LASIK.

User avatar
Dennis P Brown
Posts: 1700
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 2:46 pm
Real name: Dennis P Brown
Location: Glen Arm, MD

Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by Dennis P Brown » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:33 pm

I see what the 130 kV x-former can be used for, but what does one do with such a massive thyratron?!

User avatar
Richard Hull
Moderator
Posts: 11345
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 1:44 pm
Real name: Richard Hull

Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by Richard Hull » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:25 pm

One uses the thyratron to switch mega-watt pulses. Obviously critically needed in whatever this Universal Voltronics system was given birth to do.

Thyratrons of this ilk are built to "take it on the chin". No glass jaws here. If you go shopping for one of these, new, just the tube will be between 1 and 2 kilobucks. Be prepared for feed a reservoir voltage of 2-6 volts with 10 amps and a filament of 6-10 volts with ~20 amps. In smaller 500 kilo-watt, glass thyratrons, the reservoir was usually in parallel with the filament, needing only a single high current, low voltage Xfrmr.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

Roberto Ferrari
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:21 pm
Real name: Roberto Ferrari
Location: Argentina
Contact:

Re: Say hello to my little (HV) friends

Post by Roberto Ferrari » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:40 am

Am I wrong or that thyratron has a bent pin?

Post Reply