putt-putt boat fusion

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Richard Hull
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putt-putt boat fusion

Post by Richard Hull »

Many here, over the years, have heard me refer to "putt-putt boat" fusion regarding the NIF effort and all other fusion pulsed efforts to explode a miniature hydrogen bomb using terawatt lasers or pulsed action fusion of any kind. I have considered it like trying to power a city off of regularly timed lightning strokes.

The putt-putt board was a real little bathtub tin toy of my youth. It was commonly available at all five and dime stores for about 10 cents in the 40s and 50's. (cheap Japanese made, post war product) The boats used a candle in a pan to heat water in pipes within the boat to start to flash heat steam to create a familiar "putt, putt, putt" sound as a slug of water hit the super hot part of the pipe, flashed to steam and another cold slug would take its place to blast to steam again, and again. It relied on the non-compressible nature of water in the pipe to force the steam out the back and push the boat forward. The thin, folded, sheet metal of the boat's construction featured razor sharp edges seemingly designed to slash little hands as they installed the piping and lit candle can in the cramped miniature interior. (note: some assembly required. Band-aids and Merthiolate not included).

Pick this 10 cent boat up, (now treasured collectible), on e-bay for the paltry sum of $70.00.

Here is an image of that little toy that inspired my comparison to explode-explode-again fusion.

Richard Hull
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: putt-putt boat fusion

Post by Dennis P Brown »

The Japanese manufacturing an American PT boat is rather ironic; not unlike NIF with its claims that it would do break even fusion research rather than their real reason to exist - aid development of new weapons (they failed in that effort too.) Wrong laser, wrong illumination methodology,and wrong thinking all added up to a wasted program that took all direct drive fusion in this country down with it.
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Richard Hull
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Re: putt-putt boat fusion

Post by Richard Hull »

Growing up just after WWII ended, the US was flooded by cheap, often poorly made, Japanese goods. As they struggled to recover, we referred to such items as "cheap Japanese junk" with a smirk on our faces. Well, they showed us... They came to lead the world in the best electronic consumer goods and in the late 70's taught us how to make useful, efficient and reliable automobiles. Conquered in war, they became winners in many economic battles since. Their goods are still among the finest on earth. I always buy Makita over US made Delta power tools due to long term performance and Makita's unwillingness to cut corners to achieve a price point.

The Japanese fusion efforts are often bold and unusual. They still pursue not only IEC, but limited LENR work. They also contribute to ITER (hot fusion)

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Jerry Biehler
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Re: putt-putt boat fusion

Post by Jerry Biehler »

Try Panasonic power tools, they blow Makita out of the water.
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Re: putt-putt boat fusion

Post by ian_krase »

Lately I've seen Hitachi power tools appearing in the hardware store.

I had putt-putt boats as a kid, but they were more like gurgle-gurgle boats, and very slow. The engine was made not of sheet metal but of thin-wall copper tubing bent in a coil. They were considered a thing to make yourself.
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Re: putt-putt boat fusion

Post by Jerry Biehler »

Hitachi makes some very nice stuff as well. I have one of their older 3/8" corded hand drills. It is geared like a 1/2' drill. I actually put on a 1/2" chuck on it instead and use that for anything I need slow speed and a ton of torque. Killed the trigger once but a replacement was easy enough to get.
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Re: putt-putt boat fusion

Post by Richard Hull »

All the little boats had copper boiler piping, either coiled or zig-zaged over the heat source. The boat itself was thin, formed sheet steel.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: putt-putt boat fusion

Post by Richard Hull »

Amazingly I purchased a currently manufactured Putt-Putt boat at a ham fest of all places!!!! Made in India, It was $5.00... At a recent monthly HEAS meeting, here in my lab, everyone under 60 was stunned and captivated as the little boat powered by burning olive oil in its little fire pan, scooted around a big pan of water.

What is old is new again. At least this manifestation of a hydrogen compound produced motion from its explosive expansion. This form of putt-putt does something (propulsion).

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Mark Rowley
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Re: putt-putt boat fusion

Post by Mark Rowley »

Among many other things I collect are vintage steam engines (Wilesco, Jensen, Mamod, etc). Jensen in particular is reminded as they will sometimes give a free putt putt boat with the purchase of a new engine. I picked up one about 20 years ago. Fun little devices.

Mark Rowley
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Re: putt-putt boat fusion

Post by ian_krase »

As a boy, I once made a "putt-putt boat" from scratch out of wood and 1/8 inch copper tubing. In practice it was more like a "gurgle-gurgle boat", and very slow moving -- I think it was vastly oversized for the "engine" and the boiler was also oversized for the heat source -- at the very least, a multi-wicked candle was needed.

I think that there is one application for which inertial confinement fusion would be extremely useful and desirable if achieved: as a rocket for space propulsion. The NIF's true purpose is to engineer the H-bomb without actually making an H-bomb: Very well, if the laser system can one day be miniaturized and breakeven can be achieved, then we can build a rocket that is not merely nuclear-powered, but thermonuclear, drawing thrust straight from a directed explosion of fusion-driven hydrogen plasma. Such a vehicle would have all of the advantages but not the downsides of the (in)famous Orion Drive; it would very nearly approach the dream of the storied "torchship" of science fiction.
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Re: putt-putt boat fusion

Post by Richard Hull »

One still has the issue of the electrical energy to create the terawatt joule energy on board the ship. I do not know just how low the input energy would need to be to do useful fusion in this situation that would supply a manned ship the required thrust to be of significant value is getting someone anywhere in space within a time frame that might be considered reasonable. One might posit such a system with unmanned probes using solar power within the solar system. This would mime the high impulse low thrust ion engines. Net energy available at the propulsion end will always be the final arbiter here. The ratio of collected solar or fission power plant energy would be multiplied many times using a working fusion system, but at what weight and volumetric size cost? You just can't beat the bean counters...They are always watching and calculating and more than willing to shoot flights of fantasy and proposed spacecraft out of the sky.

I give us more chance of reverse engineering an alien spacecraft at S-4 or capturing a "tic-tac" than getting a working fusion system into space.

One man's fantasy is always as good as another.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: putt-putt boat

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

Hey Richard, just seeing this thread for the first time...

That "putt putt boat" looks vaguely familiar. I think there may have been one in my bathtub, too.

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Author of The Boy Who Invented Television: 2023 Edition – https://amz.run/6ag1
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Re: putt-putt boat fusion

Post by Richard Hull »

The only reason this old post is at the top is that the image disappeared and I replaced it with new textual info.
I am on a long time mission to replace some of my images lost in the transfer. I am far more focused on the FAQS right now, but also do the easy pick-up images in images du Jour.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Re: putt-putt boat fusion

Post by Cristiano_Machado »

I seems that we can find some pictures at google, this was the picture
D97C15DB-4132-4C6C-9740-A4296FAA7E4F.jpeg
D97C15DB-4132-4C6C-9740-A4296FAA7E4F.jpeg (15 KiB) Viewed 3648 times
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