Archived - NEUTRONS!!!

[Jamie Edwards]

Hello,
Yesterday I had a full test run of the reactor and produced neutrons. I would now like to apply for the neutron club.

the stats for the test run was;

Voltage: ranged between 18 and 22KV averaged 20KV
Current: ranged between 5 and 10 mA averaged 8mA
Pressure: 45-50 microns
Bonner sphere: peaked at 2.5 mrem/h


the systems are as follows

vacuum system:
2stage 3phase alcatel mechanical pump
cvc oil diffusion pump
kf vacuum chamber
thermocouple vacuum guage

high voltage power supply= 30KV @ 10mA

radiation equipment:
5" Bonner sphere for neutrons (this is what you can see on the video)
cdv700 Geiger counter to detect x-rays
another GM counter
electronic neutron dosimeter
lithium fluoride badge dosimeters

gas system:
canister of D2 from sigma Aldrich
2stage hydrogen regulator
needle valve
ball valve
reservoir
needle valve
needle oferice

I would like to say thank you to those people who have helped me and this list is by no means a full list but highlights some special people I would like to mention.

Mr Hourigan - for authorisation and funding
Mrs Honeyman - project manager/risk assessor and for giving up her time
George Barker - for being my PA and blogging my story
R & B Switch gear - for helping with safety and parts for the high voltage especially Robbie Newton and Tony Taylor
Tim Abram at Manchester university for lending me the neutron detector
Pro alloy for constructing the gas reservoir and valve
Fusor.net for helping with problem solving and sourcing gear
Carol Darbyshire, Raj Bhanot and Ian Grant at Springfields for helping with the radioactive health and safety and lending me the metering devices
Dr K at MIRCE Akademy for helping with my initial plans
Austin Dunne at Infrared institute for lending me some infrared thermographic equipment
Mr Dever for his photography
Site supervisors for tidying up my work area
Terry Barker for the lead shielding
Science and Technology department for helping with last minute engineering problems
And last but not least my parents for their help and support.

The following photos and videos are of me,the reactor, plasma and parts.

me altering the HV

Plasma

Me with the press

more press

me on live TV with my PA George barker

I will upload some more pictures and videos when I have a chance

Jamie

[Chris Bradley]

Well done Jamie. The indicated pressure is high for a fusor but you appear to be operating in a KF25 cross. The smaller the vessel, the larger the voltage can be achieved for a given pressure. However, you also push out of molecular flow and there are not many comparable experiments operating this high a pressure. Do you have some details of your grid?

Can you estimate the fusion rate as indicated by the count rate on the Bonner sphere? I assume it is a calibrated instrument if it was loaned to you by a company.

One of your great successes here is to persuade people to come along on your journey. You are, indeed, very lucky to be at such a nurturing and open-minded school. I could not imagine many schools being enthusiastic towards this as yours clearly is, and that would also help in attracting outside help once folks know your school is supportive of the project.

[Jamie Edwards]

hi,
here is the video of the bonner sphere when we detected the neutrons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wscGHrQ ... e=youtu.be

[Jamie Edwards]

Some more videos here,

The first one is my plasma before the power supply trips out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXkBQXb ... e=youtu.be

and this is the fusor systems a bit more in depth than above

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfrgixV ... e=youtu.be

[Scott Moroch]

Congradulations Jamie! Very nice set up. Its incredible the turn out of people you had to watch your first neutrons. Did you borrow a different high voltahe for the first neutrons? I remembered you had a cps power supply.

Very nice job.
Best,
Scott Moroch

[Jamie Edwards]

Yes, I did in the end borrow a different power supply for the day. We tried for a plasma run a few weeks ago but the CPS was not working. Therefore I had to borrow one. The supply I used was in fact a test set for flashing cable. It worked well but was harder to use as it tripped out at 12 mA. For my next test I plan to use a new power supply.

[Scott Moroch]

Are you looking to purchase a glassman or spellan type power supply? Very nice work though. Do you know yet how many neutrons per second you were getting? Did you do the calculations.

Scott Moroch

[Jamie Edwards]

I am not sure what power supply i am going to buy yet. what calculations do I need to do to work out how many neutrons were produced. I only have the bonner sphere reading in mrem/h. will it be the same on my CDV700 for the mrem to cpm ratio. if so I will, just use the inverse square law.

[Richard Hull]

Jamie,

Fabulous video and effort on your part at your age. I am glad you got recognition on TV for your efforts.

Now as to fusion:

Your long running images here are great and your closing data report was good and specific on every single point except for the most important point where there is not one piece of data given. Recorded neutron data. Re-read the FAQ: rules for joining the neutron club as related to neutron measurement.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1125

My issues with your fusion win follow:

Could you tell us what you recorded on the bonner sphere. There is no detail here. Was the Sphere hooked to a counter with an analog readout or was it hooked to a digital readout. Regardless, what was the count and over what unit of time. This is far more critical than anything you actually logged in your report. We are critical of who gets into the club and demand usable proof of real neutron production. Do you know what kind of tube is in the sphere. BF3? or 3He?

You mention a mrem reading on the sphere what was it. No calculations are required. Hooking a digital counter up the the bonner sphere's instrument is much more instructional over any analog meter reading, especially at the hyper low fusion level of 20kv. 2-3 millirem is an ungodly and rather impossible level of neutron radiation for a 20kv fusor. The D2 pressure is indeed way too high, assuming your vacuum pressure metering is good.

As your neutron level is far too high for such a running voltage and without further critical review of a real neutron level, I can't give you a vote of fusion even though you might have and should have been doing fusion. At 20kv applied, a properly adjusted fast neutron instrument should have barely moved the needle, but most likely would not have moved it at all based on the scale shown. A digital counter, might a have clicked about 10 cpm above background if it is a BF3 tube detector in real life. I assume you were on the X1 range.

Sorry, but from my viewpoint there are serious issues with the neutron reading which would be you sole indicator of proof of fusion. While I am an accomplished fusioneer of many years now, I would like to hear from my peers in this area on this issue as I do not wish to dismiss out of hand. Folks who have done fusion know all the tight specifics of fusion in a fusor and most of your report is a bit off from common experience, I feel.

Do not feel bad, 90% of all amateurs doing fusion have terrible, inadequate or malfunctioning neutron measurment systems. They tend not to spend too much time learning neutron measuring techniques. In many cases it is an afterthought once all the hardware is in place. We are hard because life is hard and science is a cold and uncaring taskmaster that will not abide anything less than absolute, irrefutable proof of a process before a win is declared.

Richard Hull

[JakeJHecla]

Jaime, PM me and I'll walk you through the math. I'm in agreement with Richard that this sounds a bit off, but I'll reserve judgement for the elders of .net.

[Chris Bradley]

I think assumptions of a 30cm range (eyeballing photos) and ~10 neut/cm^2/s per mrem/hr lead to a suggested neutron rate of over 200kneut/s at 2mrem/hr. An activation result could be possible, if this is so.

The high pressure (at which no previous successful fusion runs have been reported) and lack of evidence of a star mode (that I think we have some good ideas why it is a pre-cursor to the fusion regime) has to raise further questions to answer first, such as whether it is a BF3 (shielded or unshielded tube?) responding to the x-ray component. From the commentary during the run, the Bonner ball count seemed to rise as soon as the X-rays rose, whereas I would've expected a period where x-rays would kick off before the neutrons started up.

Nothing demonstrated yet, one way or other: The usual treatments, to perform null experiments, may be the next steps - does the Bonner ball react when an inert gas is used instead of D2, and then does the count rate drop when the moderator is removed?

[Richard Hull]

Note: Some remballs, (Bonner Spheres), do not allow the detector tube to be removed all that easy, others do. But if it can be removed, as Chris notes, that is the ultimate test to determine whether you are measuring fast neutrons or not. One fellow about a year ago was awarded a win and entry into the Neutron club without counter numbers really quoted just because he did the definitive test on video for all to see with good camera work similar to Carl Willis' superb video showing this effect. Again this is in a great FAQ in the Neutron radiation forum.
1 Run your fusor.
2. With moderator in place around the detector tube, record real counts.
3. Withdraw the tube from the moderator and you should have no counts at all. A naked neutron detector tube will not count or detect fast fusion neutrons!
4. Re-insert the tube back into the moderator and the counts return.

You are doing fusion without any doubt.

If you get counts inside and outside of the moderator, your entire neutron counter setup has major issues.

Here is the link to the video showing this effect. Well done stuff like this is a must watch for all folks doing neutron measurments. While overly instructive and aimed more at the self assembled neutron counting system, it does show the above effect admirably. All you really need is a known good neutron counter system with a detector tube that can be removed from its moderator assembly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skP3SWWR9Kw

Richard Hull

[Jim Kovalchick]

I also agree that more work needs to be done for clear demonstration of neutrons. It appears that the plasma flashed for a short period of time and then extinguished. Plasma management may come from setting a pressure that doesn't require such a high voltage in the chamber and then walking up voltage while slowly decreasing pressure. Big flashes cause electronic noise and bursts of outgassing that make it even harder to control current.

Sounds to me like this good project was rushed a little bit by press hype and the race to get neutrons before the 14th birthday to say he beat Taylor Wilson's age record. This all stands out to me because the press was called in for the first neutron run. I'm not sure this young man is even in the plasma club yet.

Learn to manage plasma. In fact don't waste D doing it. Use air. Explore your controls. Then tinker with D. Look for star mode. Shake down and learn your neutron instrumentation. Racing for artificial milestones like youngest is how power supplies get fried, grids get melted, and people get hurt. All this with hauling in the press may lead people to think you just trying to show boat your way to fame.

Best of luck to Jamie. I hope he achieves but by doing it right.

[John Futter]

Jamie
Well done so far
Science is 90% perspiration (work done), 5 % aspiration, and 5% inspiration

we will all look forward to your continuing results
Silver activation may be the easiest to prove neutrons but yo udo need quite a few to get the silver sufficiently above background to be able to measure the half life curve

[Jamie Edwards]

Thanks for the quick responses I am gathering more evidence from the bbc ect so I can give you all the information.
I will make a full report and put I to here on Monday.

Jamie

[Richard Hull]

If you can prove fusion at 14 I will put your name up beside Taylor Wilson's as the youngest guys to ever do fusion (14). As noted above run the tests and show good proof of fusion. I don't think that 20kv fusion levels will be enough to do definitive silver activation work. (Though I could be wrong if the work is carefully conducted.)

I have put you in the plasma club for now

Richard Hull

[Jamie Edwards]

Hello,
I thought I should write a brief to explain the radio silence from my end. I've read all the posts that have been a direct in response to my fusion claim and those that have been indirect with much interest. I really appreciate the time people have taken to respond. I have not been able to do any more work with my reactor due to having to catch up on school work and having had some exams too.

The science mentors that have been supporting me felt that what they witnessed was evidence of fusion. So far amongst those who have been involved and have looked over my work include 2 science teachers at school one of whom is a physicist, a university professor and also a senior nuclear energy researcher.

I was able to hold plasma for a good number of minutes on several occasions. No movement on the bonner sphere was noted during this time. The bonner sphere only moved once the D had been introduced to the chamber. This was one of the reasons it was believed I had achieved fusion.
I was hoping to have further video evidence to post but I the video was perhaps too focused on individual elements of the experiment rather than giving a broad overview of all that was happening simultaneously. I will address this in future runs and evidence collecting.

I have learn many lessons - particularly making sure I've done enough to record the essential data as needed!

There have been suggestions that I repeat the experiment and provide a much more detailed account including doing runs without D in the system and then with. This is sound advice that I will follow.
I aim to have this more detailed information with you soon.

I will be doing more test as soon as I get my parts back!

Many thanks-
Jamie