Dave Cooper wrote:
> Repeat this, whenever the perpetual motion inventor is present. It works almost magically.
>
> " A closed path in a conservative field, does no net work."
>
>
> If you can understand this you are fully innoculated against the deceitful virus of "free" eneregy. It applies to magnets, electrostatics, springs, weights, gravity and gas pressures. Absolutely amazing!!
>
> Dave Cooper
A question, though - does a magnetic field actually produce a conservative field? I agree that it does, with respect to a paramagnetic object, but it is a crossed-product field and is only conservative to a paramagnetic object due to that object also inducing a crossed-product reactive field according to its domains.
That is to say, a magnetic field cannot do any *net* work, it can only do work with respect to a given axial dimension. To any fundamental particle it can only change its direction of momentum.
Saw this on the interweb - so it must be true.
- Chris Bradley
- Posts: 2930
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 7:05 am
- Real name:
- Carl Willis
- Posts: 2841
- Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 7:33 pm
- Real name: Carl Willis
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
- Contact:
Re: Saw this on the interweb - so it must be true.
In conservative fields, the value of the product of force and displacement integrated around any closed path is zero by definition. Of course, Ampere's Law says that if a path encloses a current, the closed-path integral of B and displacement is proportional to the current. A conductor carrying current is surrounded by closed loops of magnetic field. Thus the B field is not conservative for a path defined in this way.
In the case of magnets moving pieces of metal or other magnets put in their field, which is the essence of all these lame "free-energy" motors, the paths taken by the chunks of magnetized stuff as they move toward / away from one another enclose no current. Dave's statement is an accurate summary of the conceptual failure behind all that decades-old Keelynet rubbish.
Why did this ever get brought up here?
-Carl
In the case of magnets moving pieces of metal or other magnets put in their field, which is the essence of all these lame "free-energy" motors, the paths taken by the chunks of magnetized stuff as they move toward / away from one another enclose no current. Dave's statement is an accurate summary of the conceptual failure behind all that decades-old Keelynet rubbish.
Why did this ever get brought up here?
-Carl
- Chris Bradley
- Posts: 2930
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 7:05 am
- Real name:
Re: Saw this on the interweb - so it must be true.
I would ask, why not? Maybe it's just a stimulus that could lead into a bit of brainstorming on something that could be useful. Seems more relevant than p11B!...
- Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 14992
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: Saw this on the interweb - so it must be true.
The old Don Lancaster adage related to free energy magnetic field "chaser" engines remains........
The laws of physics are like a poker game
"It's the only game in town and it's rigged"
No way to ever win at the perpetual motion table. (Thank God)
Richard Hull
The laws of physics are like a poker game
"It's the only game in town and it's rigged"
No way to ever win at the perpetual motion table. (Thank God)
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
-
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:51 am
- Real name:
- Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Re: Saw this on the interweb - so it must be true.
The closest to this design is the Searl Effect Generator "mock-up" from a crackpot old-timer and even that isn't designed to produce energy by design but to demonstrate the centripital and centrifugal motions of the magnetic fields. Still requires pulsed electromagnets around the perimeter to maintain RPMs.
Thinking of building the mock-up myself with a few tweaks to see just how the overall design works. Like copper baseplate or contacts on the copper ring to test if current/voltage is even being generated in free-rotation power off spin down.
Thinking of building the mock-up myself with a few tweaks to see just how the overall design works. Like copper baseplate or contacts on the copper ring to test if current/voltage is even being generated in free-rotation power off spin down.
- David Geer
Re: Saw this on the interweb - so it must be true.
Must admit most of these kinds of free energy claims make me laugh, but there is one that I know about that seems to be beating the odds. I put a link to it below. They call it Orbo.
http://www.steorn.com/orbo/what/
The device seems pretty straight forward. Only time will tell if it's true or not.
http://www.steorn.com/orbo/what/
The device seems pretty straight forward. Only time will tell if it's true or not.
- Carl Willis
- Posts: 2841
- Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 7:33 pm
- Real name: Carl Willis
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
- Contact:
Re: Saw this on the interweb - so it must be true.
This thread is closed now.
The Steorn "orbo" has been discussed in the past on these forums, with noisy and off-topic threads ensuing that are entirely typical of contributors not adhering to the topic of real amateur nuclear fusion. (Use the search function to see what I mean.) There will be no continuation of that discussion on fusor.net. The remainder of this thread is of low value, and with the reprise of Steorn, I think its time has come.
Thanks for your understanding.
-Carl
The Steorn "orbo" has been discussed in the past on these forums, with noisy and off-topic threads ensuing that are entirely typical of contributors not adhering to the topic of real amateur nuclear fusion. (Use the search function to see what I mean.) There will be no continuation of that discussion on fusor.net. The remainder of this thread is of low value, and with the reprise of Steorn, I think its time has come.
Thanks for your understanding.
-Carl