FAQ: Heavy Water Electrolysis Deuterium Source

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Andrew Seltzman
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Re: Deuterium Source Operational

Post by Andrew Seltzman » Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:49 am

I suppose it would work, though drierite would be better. You could probably get it on line, it's fairly common.


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Re: Heavy Water Electrolysis Deuterium Source

Post by AllenWallace » Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:11 am

Andrew,

How do you regulate the D2 volume? It seems to me that if you suck too much D2 into the fusor, you will suck the D20 into the drieite.

Allen Wallace

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Re: Heavy Water Electrolysis Deuterium Source

Post by Andrew Seltzman » Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:45 am

The ultra fine needle valve at the bottom can be used to regulate deuterium flow. You can adjust the valve such that the production and consumption rates match. This is easier than one might suspect; the needle valve can be adjusted so that the production rate exceeds the consumption rate. Due to the design of the inner electrode, the produced deuterium will displace the heavy water until it is not in contact with the central electrode, stopping electrolysis. The level will continue to oscillate between touching and not touching the bottom electrode, and the system becomes self regulating. This can be varied for slightly higher rates as the conductivity of the system increases as the D2O climbs up the column, thus increasing production rate.

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Richard Hull
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Re: Heavy Water Electrolysis Deuterium Source

Post by Richard Hull » Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:45 pm

This seems like a shining example of how to skirt the bottled gas issue.

I just wish that an RGA could be hooked up and look at the D2O mass number in the fusor chamber. I can't help but think that some D2O is getting through. This would probably not be a problem if it were on a ratio of one D2O molecule for every 50 D2 molecules.

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Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
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Re: Heavy Water Electrolysis Deuterium Source

Post by Roberto Ferrari » Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:31 am

Richard,
When those doubts arose, is time to think about a palladium tube or membrane. Just will let go through only the D. Really super dry!
Roberto

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Adam Szendrey
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Re: Heavy Water Electrolysis Deuterium Source

Post by Adam Szendrey » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:21 am

Right now, i can only afford D2O. 25 ml of the stuff will give me about 30 l of D2 (theoretically). That's pretty sweet. 25 ml costs somewhere around 40-50 euros in germany.
Andrew, how efficiently does this system extract D2 from D2O. What i would like to know, is how much of x liters of theoretically avaliable gas can be extracted (for example, what percentage of that 30 liters can be extracted)?

Adam

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Richard Hull
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Re: Heavy Water Electrolysis Deuterium Source

Post by Richard Hull » Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:21 pm

To Roberto and Adam...........

A Pd membrane would be the best of all worlds, but barring obtaining an ultra thin section, even the thinnest foils would require some time for the D2 to, more or less, osmos through. Pressure differentials would, of course, drive the process.

The efficiency of D2 separation would be rather high in the electrolysis process, virtually 100%, provided the electrolye is chosen with great care, which I have mentioned in other posts. The loss of D2 to chemical combinations would be the sole loss of D2 in a D2O electrolysis setup. The platinum wire obviates metalo-hydrides to some degree, though platinum is capable of picking up hydrogen and an electrolyte like D2SO4 would avoid other issues, though the quantity of electrolyte is small even with hydrogenated electrolytes. The Sodium Carbonate would do fine with minimal combination.

As shown, I would think that there is little loss in this process. If deuterating of the Pt electrodes occurs, it will load up to a point and then cease once stuffed full allowing the freshly produced D2 to proceed out of the system. This could be checked after a period of operation by testing the pliability of the Pt. If it is stiff, then D embrittlement is apparent, indicating some loading.

The D20 used would have to be at minimum 98% pure. Some sort of statement to this effect with an analysis sheet would be nice. United Nuclear's product is of unstated purity, I think.

Richard Hull
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Re: Heavy Water Electrolysis Deuterium Source

Post by Adam Szendrey » Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:07 pm

United Nuclear sells 99.999 % pure D2O (at least they claim that, but i guess there's no reason not to trust them).
100 mg (should be about 91 ml) costs $65. I aksed them a while back if they can ship D2O abroad (to Hungary), and they told be they can. 91 ml of D2O contains almost 110 liters of D2. I may order D2O from them, as here, in europe D2O is considerably more expensive.
See the page below:
http://www.unitednuclear.com/chem.htm

It's interesting to note what is written under the uses of heavy water:
"Easily make pure Deuterium gas for Fusor experiments, etc."
:)

Adam

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Frank Sanns
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Re: Heavy Water Electrolysis Deuterium Source

Post by Frank Sanns » Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:18 pm

Actually, the United Nuclear heavy water is STATED to be Ultrex 99.999%. I just have not seen it CONFIRMED anywhere!

It does sink though. My curiousity got the best of me as I was not sure that what I bought was anything other than tap water. Having sufficient quantity to experiment, I made a small (~2 cm^3) ice cube out of the UN D2O. I also cooled some distilled water down until it was starting to freeze at the edges. This gave me the longest "hang time" of the cube before it melted. I put the D2O cube in there and it went straight to the bottom. This is not an certified analysis but it sure is at least half D2O.

Frank S.

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Adam Szendrey
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Re: Heavy Water Electrolysis Deuterium Source

Post by Adam Szendrey » Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:14 pm

It would be rather unfortunate if they would be selling some low purity stuff.I'm hoping they wouldn't try to sell some junk, as with proper equippment the purtity can be verified. If someone buys the stuff, and has the required equippment to test it, and finds that it's low purity, UN would get into a lot of trouble i think.... They would loose their credit, and a lot of costumers. D2O is not something that a lot of people buy, so it doesn't worth the risk to fake it (at least i hope).
Maybe they can proove the purity, if someone writes an email and asks them to.

Adam

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