Hello from Mississauga

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S Silvawalker
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:24 am
Real name: Storm Antonio Chiune Silvawalker

Hello from Mississauga

Post by S Silvawalker » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:51 am

Hello, My name is Storm Silvawalker, I am a high school student about to go to university. I have been attempting to build inertial electrostatic confinement fusors for about a year now with some success, although I have been looking at how to make them for almost six at this point. All of my tests have been self-funded and my experience with high voltages and currents comes from many years of parental support and experiments with microwave oven transformers to make some pretty cool light shows.

My tests use an old Edwards two stage rotary vane vacuum pump with Edwards Ultragrade 19 oil. The tests have been performed with both acrylic chambers and glass bell jar chambers. The tests have also been done with both rectified microwave oven transformers(may my multimeter rest in peace) and with a flyback transformer.

Pressure=7.5x10^-8 Torr (not really though as I have some serious leaks)
MOT(microwave oven transformer)
V=2kV
I=1A

Flyback (yeah this one has an x-ray risk)
V=10-20kV
I=?
(have not done many tests and really don't trust and values I find for these)

Really simple stuff but I am here to learn and I would appreciate any advice which I can get, thank you for your time and I hope to post my projects for you guys to see soon.

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Dennis P Brown
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 2:46 pm
Real name: Dennis P Brown
Location: Glen Arm, MD

Re: Hello from Mississauga

Post by Dennis P Brown » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:16 am

Hello and sounds like you have some good experience with developing electric induced plasma's.

A two stage pump can't readily achieve 10^-3 torr much less achieve 10^-8 torr. Even a good turbo would struggle except with a very tight system that is extremely clean. So, I assume that is a typo.

Along these lines, getting some type of high vacuum pump (diffusion or turbo) and proper vacuum gauge would be a logical next step. Also, maybe a four way cross to set up a fusor grade 'chamber'. Besides being safer, it gets you closer to having a real fusor system. A gate valve could be added to your system later when or if you are ready to experiment with adding a gas supply like deuterium.

I'd also suggest you get rid of the flyback, and MOT but instead, get a NST for experiments - a lot safer. This would enable you to create a rectified and current control/metering system to begin understanding that aspect of a fusor using a plasma in a fusor grade vacuum system.

A good high vac system can be used for more than a fusor: sputtering or metal vapor deposition come to mind. So, such a system can be used for other useful purposes as one's interest and experience grows.

S Silvawalker
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:24 am
Real name: Storm Antonio Chiune Silvawalker

Re: Hello from Mississauga

Post by S Silvawalker » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:18 pm

Thank you for the advice, the pressure was a mistake the site says, 7.5x10^-4 Torr. As far as ditching the flyback and MOTs for a nice NST I am currently broke although that situation will be resolved soon I hope.

My pump https://www.idealvac.com/Edwards-8-E2M8 ... hed/pp/647
It is quite old.

How well could placing another single stage pump after it in series (can't afford a diffusion or an axial pump)?

Image
MOT Run
Pretty bad geometry and obviously high pressure as I am experiencing right now.

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Dennis P Brown
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 2:46 pm
Real name: Dennis P Brown
Location: Glen Arm, MD

Re: Hello from Mississauga

Post by Dennis P Brown » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:06 am

A two stage mechanical pump cannot get to 10^=4 torr, ever. Your gauge is in error. Adding a second mechanical pump will not lower the vacuum very much (assuming the system is capable of the 10^-2/10^-3 range.) There are no easy methods to get into or below the 10^-3 torr range without a diffusion or turbo (There are cryo systems but they tend to be rather expensive and are generally for ultra clean systems.)

A water cooled diffusion pump can be obtained for around $100 but oil can add to the cost a good bit.

Your first need is an accurate vacuum gauge since your micron readings are far off (your pump, if it is operating well, maybe is getting into the low 10^-3 torr. From your glow discharge, you would be lucky to be in the 10^-1 torr or a few torr. that, as you say, might be due to leaks since that pump is certainly capable of doing far better than that, depending on the oil condition.) A properly operating micron gauge (or Pa equivalent) is essential for proper experiments so that should be a priority. These can be obtained for well under $100 in the case of thermal couple readers/detectors. Just get a unit from a person that allows returns.

I would suggest you replace the bell jar with something a great deal safer; a four-way 2.75 inch cross or "T" would all work and can, again, if one looks, be obtained for under $50. In any case, your bell jar should be shielded with a wire mesh cage for safety.

S Silvawalker
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:24 am
Real name: Storm Antonio Chiune Silvawalker

Re: Hello from Mississauga

Post by S Silvawalker » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:20 am

Thank you, I will look for those items as I have never heard of them at those prices but your statement entices me to look.

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Dennis P Brown
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 2:46 pm
Real name: Dennis P Brown
Location: Glen Arm, MD

Re: Hello from Mississauga

Post by Dennis P Brown » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:48 am

Finding deals requires knowledge (where and what vendors to look for and how to enter a search criteria) and persistence. Biding techniques also matter for places like e-bay - pointless to end up in a biding war if you need to spend wisely. Some chinese dealers on e-bay often have deals but these are more rare now but sometimes they occur. You must check these sites often. Knowing what you want and looking for it is important - that is, understand how the equipment works and what it is good for. In the case of vacuum detectors, there are a wide range of types and the extent of electronics needed to make the detector work - avoid complex electronics unless you are comfortable with dealing with cables, interface issues and power requirements. Sometimes simple has its advantages but a gauge and reader that covers most all ranges has advantages if the price is acceptable (I prefer analog and inexpensive. In which case, one gets a separate high vac and micron range gauge - these tend to be low cost compared to the new wide range detectors. See posts here not just on these types but some people here get versatile systems and with some wiring to create a new cable/and or power supply, a great system that is rather inexpensive.) Return policy is important since there is junk sold. Never buy if you can't test it and return it.

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