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Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:04 pm
by William Pete
Been told there was flaws in my first approach, need someone to give some decent instruction here. This should be a simple process down to part numbers and what-not.

Not too concerned about the cost as it should be straightforward and have seen people do this for under $1000

Thank you, onward & upward ladies and gents.

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:32 pm
by Richard Hull
Folks come here all the time and want blue prints, parts lists with part number, etc. There are no blue prints, no parts lists with part numbers.
There is no fun to be had in that approach. There are about 100 ways to make a functioning fusor with countless thousands of parts that can and have been used over the 20 years of this effort.

Richard Hull

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:50 pm
by William Pete
So if I am not mistaken this is like a glorified form of cooking methamphetamine?

Every other scientific process has a direct, cultivated, and proper way of doing things.

I'm not against jimmy rigging something - but I need the support of others to dictate what specific parts I may need and how I might go about assembly of those parts. Without that guidance this is futile.

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:05 pm
by Richard Hull
You are in good company. Many others who came here did not "pack the gear" needed to read, read and read some more.....To roll up their sleeves and get busy actually doing something. They just could not overcome their self-directed learning rest inertia. They left after going nowhere... one-quarter of the way... half the way, etc., etc. No verve + inertial stasis = no fusion. The most common equation for newbies.

Too bad UPS can't just deliver a big wooden crate of parts with full instructions ordered from a catalog with metal pages so one can build an Interocitor as happened in the movie, "This Island Earth".

I failed in my effort on the Interocitor. I only got as far as getting the needed "bead condenser"

Richard Hull

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:32 pm
by Rich Feldman
>>I'm not against jimmy rigging something - but I need the support of others to dictate what specific parts I may need and how I might go about assembly of those parts. Without that guidance this is futile

William, it's good to see you using the New User Chat Area.
But you are still behaving like a forum troll.

[edit] By the way, congratulations on your asteroid. Seriously. It's actually well earned, unlike the "Star Registry" gift scam that used to be advertised every December. Not given out for regional science fair grand-prize judging. Let's see if there's room for a little snip from Wikipedia.
22782-22809.jpg

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:26 am
by William Pete
Hey,

Thanks fellas. you guys are actually pretty legit.

I'm not a troll! just know that haha. I am just *ahem* a little "internet challenged" as my social skills are just abrasive to others (a little odd for a millennial; but I don't use facebook or social media in general just because I know I piss people off)

But as for fusion, I'm prepared to spend easily 2-3 years on this project because I came here to ultimately learn something, follow the scientific method, adhere to proper safety procedures, and be able to use the experiment of achieving legitimate fusion to wholeheartedly advocate for nuclear as safe, clean, and nearly renewable energy.

My previous comment about this forum treating these reactors along the lines of a meth lab was not trolling, but simply my observation and a comparison. The popular ADHD drug adderall is 1 molecule different than this street drug cooked in sketchy home labs, but what makes Adderall a successful, safe, pharmaceutical is an extensive quality control process that shepherds responsible use from the patients perscribed it.

Even if it means spending some extra money to do this right, and spending the extra time to run it by some guys with educations in the field who have achieved fusion safely - I see this as an extremely worthy investment of my time that really is not something I could get through a University even (I am highly attracted to renegade education from hands-on experience)

Before even posting here I began familiarizing myself with how safe the nuclear process can be; from my research so far I have found that even some of the worst disasters associated with nuclear energy are environmentally far less harmful than say, something like the Exxon Valdez spill. My belief is that someday soon a fusion reactor will be about as common and non-threatening to the average person as a home furnace.

Thank you for your responses and time.

William G. Pete

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:15 am
by Jerry Biehler
You could put together a part list to make a fusor, but it wont be possible to do it under $1000, possible an order of magnitude larger. With this kind of stuff it is pretty difficult to find an exact part used so you have to scrounge, find used, modify, etc to keep the costs down. When you have part numbers and you stick to that you are using new parts and you will find anything having to do with vacuum and gas delivery is insanely expensive.

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:06 pm
by Dennis P Brown
If you want a list required to build a fusor then that is easy; so easy it is beyond the pale that anyone and everyone with money doesn't construct a fusor.

Just buy off the self items and I'll even give common prices:

A negative power supply of 400 watts or greater power with 30 kV output (or 40 kV better.) Cost - a steal at $5 to 7 K.

A turbo (any unit you can find vacuum connections to for a manual gate value.) Cost, $10 - 15 K and up.

A manual gate value (to fit said turbo.) $3 K and up.

An average lab grade two stage vacuum pump - around $3K.

KF fittings/connection tubes and a steel vapor trap for said pump: $3 K and up depending on valves (they run about $1K and up each) and complexity.

A vacuum gauge system for micron to torr range - $3 to 5 K

A turn key neutron detector; lucky, people sell those for about $1K but need your own computer to run the software.

Deuterium gas often isn't generally for sale to the average person; make your own for under $1K. Maybe convince a welding supply company for a small bottle (need a regulator); est. about $2K.

If you think anyone can give you a list for building a fusor system for $1K, then you have been busy cooking meth and abusing it. Building a real fusor for about $1K requires a lot of skill and know-how; information gained from reading the FAQ's so as not to ask questions already available in those sections. Then after getting this knowledge, watching ebay for deals and talking with people here who know what they are doing so you get what you really need. Then building sub systems and gaining real experience so that you work your way up to a real fusor. Or, just buy new, off the self stuff (some do) for big bucks.

Safety - if you are comparing nuclear power systems like power plants (fission reactors and experimental fusion reactors) with fusors, you are comparing a backyard toy rocket kit for teen's with NASA. Essentially, that is comparing apples to oranges and not to be done. Real fusors are highly dangerous but only to someone using them. The voltages are lethal and depending on design, the x-rays from the high voltage can be moderate to very dangerous. The neutrons are the least issue and generally are very safe so no real relevancy to real nuclear power plants/test beds.

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:22 pm
by Richard Hull
Jerry and Dennis got it right. If we had a list of good parts that would make a fusor in all hands, it might run $30,000. Even with plus-ultra parts and fully assembled, It is somewhat of an art to successfully run and operate one to peak efficiency. Much is written about the "artifice" involved in operation in the forums and FAQs.

Richard Hull

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:27 pm
by Bob Reite
I failed in my effort on the Interocitor. I only got as far as getting the needed "bead condenser"
A bit off topic: Richard, where did you get that bead condenser prop? Make it yourself?

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:03 pm
by Rich Feldman
Using formulas from conventional Earth technology, that bead condenser can accumulate 9000 watt-seconds of energy.
Do the instructions mention any warning signs, in case it's about to blow? :-)

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:43 pm
by Richard Hull
Made it myself, indeed. Watched and freeze framed the movie to get the part number and supplier correct for the box.
Alien technology does not "blow up". Man made stuff does.

Richard Hull

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:54 pm
by William Pete
$30k seems like a really reasonable price through my eyes, might not to most but hear me out - if any of that energy could be harnessed then the cost could be completely justified. A hobby project to me though (I understand that it won't power my house or energy hogging BOINC operation by any means), I personally can still justify the cost because its f*cking epic and ruffles some feathers; especially seeing as the EPA is going under later this week due to lack of funding. Even the most outspoken minds in technology and green energy say nuclear is our only option as a civilization to cut down on carbon.

Off topic: I am a big E85 guy over electric vehicles since I come from corn country and Teslas can effectively be considered a contemporary coal-powered vehicle; a nuclear grid could sell me a Tesla though :)
Richard Hull wrote: Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:22 pm Jerry and Dennis got it right. If we had a list of good parts that would make a fusor in all hands, it might run $30,000. Even with plus-ultra parts and fully assembled, It is somewhat of an art to successfully run and operate one to peak efficiency. Much is written about the "artifice" involved in operation in the forums and FAQs.

Richard Hull

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:47 pm
by Rich Feldman
OK William.
After you are proficient at fusing, you are free to profit by producing a ready-to-fly fusor, or selling plans with a bill of materials.
The market might be smaller than that for Virgin Galactic's $250,000 tickets, to enjoy a few minutes of microgravity on a suborbital excursion above the first 100 km of our atmosphere.

[off topic] I bet most new electric generating capacity in USA is natural gas fired.
Decline of coal is not from Obama regulatory over-reach, it's from under-reach about fracking. Consequently gas is too cheap.
Oil wells were invented in USA. A century later, our fossil fuels are the most drilled, mined, and depleted on Earth. Fracking, along with offshore and wilderness leases, expedites the depletion of what's left. Like federal deficit spending -- let's avoid the unpleasantness of looking ahead one or two human generations.

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:32 am
by William Pete
Awhh cmon man,

We all know we're gonna pump earth to apocalypse-level carbon in this lifetime, lets at least have some fun with it and sell the real answer (nuclear) while we are still breathing
Rich Feldman wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:47 pm OK William.
After you are proficient at fusing, you are free to profit by producing a ready-to-fly fusor, or selling plans with a bill of materials.
The market might be smaller than that for Virgin Galactic's $250,000 tickets, to enjoy a few minutes of microgravity on a suborbital excursion above the first 100 km of our atmosphere.

[off topic] I bet most new electric generating capacity in USA is natural gas fired.
Decline of coal is not from Obama regulatory over-reach, it's from under-reach about fracking. Consequently gas is too cheap.
Oil wells were invented in USA. A century later, our fossil fuels are the most drilled, mined, and depleted on Earth. Fracking, along with offshore and wilderness leases, expedites the depletion of what's left. Like federal deficit spending -- let's avoid the unpleasantness of looking ahead one or two human generations.

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:16 am
by Rex Allers
Stop quoting the whole message you are replying to.

I'd suggest that the short-sight problem with nuclear is that we have to safely store the radioactive waste for times on the order of, or longer than, homo sapiens have existed. What could go wrong?

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:12 am
by Dennis P Brown
If you want to build a fusor for fun and learning, this is a good place. If you want to do research, again, this is the place to learn so you can. If you want a complete list of parts and assembly instructions, not happening.

Fusors can be lethal and part of the ability to be safe is doing the hard work of tracking down parts, reading FAQ's, building components and testing various sub-units, until one is ready to build the real fusor.

Fusors are not for the lazy, nor people that lose interest fast nor are willing to teach themselves various techniques - vacuum work, electronics, machine work to name a few if money is an issue. I spent over five years building equipment, running experiments and going down blind alleys before I built a successful fusor. My first build was an accelerator; then a Van de Graaf, followed by a few voltage multipliers until I decided to get serious about fusors. Then I got a proper power supply and built the fusor.

If you want to do energy research, then you have huge hurtles to overcome besides building a fusor - which, frankly, is vastly simpler compared to that goal. I suggest you decide what you want to do, focus on that objective and get moving. Posting talk about coal and fission power isn't ever going to get you anywhere nor is that the purpose of this forum.

As Richard says too often: if you have an idea, build it.

So, start putting together real hardware and people here will help you as best as we can.

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:43 am
by William Pete
I had an idea but someone said there was serious flaws in my drawing.

I have no problem putting on a gas mask and jimmying the thing. I've consumed substances in my youth that are probably more lethal than a fusor could ever be. My house could turn into chernobyl but I am prepared - I readily have handled uranium bare handed. Death isn't an issue here, I will not let it happen to myself or others. I'm real good at jimmy rigging stuff and I figure this is no different. But following closely someone else's process is needed, otherwise I'm rolling with my initial drawing....

I would be honored to join the 27 club trying to build a fusor. This is for America baby.

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:01 pm
by Jerry Biehler
You are not ever going to break even with a fusor, just not happening.

Uranium is not a big deal, it is mostly an alpha emitter which does not even make it through your skin, about the only time you need to really worry about it is if you ingest or inhale it. The x-rays from a fusor at 40kv are way more of a problem than that. And then there is the potentially exposed voltages, 40kv at 10ma has a pretty decent chance of killing you.

Re: Someone give me some exact specs

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:07 pm
by ian_krase
William,

I suspect some people might be willing to produce a design for vacuum chambers and gas delivery as consultants in exchange for a fee. Skilled consulting of this kind rarely costs less than $100 an hour and is usually twice that or more.


50 kV for a fusor can kill you instantly just by touching it, and will also blow through thick layers of insulation and jump 6 inches through the air -- or even gradually leak into the air and charge your body up without you noticing. Uranium is child's play compared to this.


A fusion reactor of nearly any kind that even approaches breakeven will be an intense radiation source. One using deuterium fuel will be an intense neutron radiation source, which means the fusor and everything near it become radioactive. These rapidly become impossible to operate without hefty safety and licensing requirements. There are some people working on energy experiments, like Doug Coulter. These people have done the long slog through the study of basic vacuum and electrical techniques just like everybody else here who has gotten into the neutron club. There ultimately is no substitute for diligence.