The Tokawell is Back- But Different

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Will Odom
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The Tokawell is Back- But Different

Post by Will Odom »

Chamber is 2 pipes one with 8" OD the other with a 2.5". 1/2" stainless plate welded to the bottom of both pipes with a hole in the middle of the plate where the smaller pipe is. It will be pressure tested and polished. The upper 1/2 stainless plate will be grooved to fit the 8" pipe wall and the 2.5" pipe wall. It will overlap the middle by 1/2" to insure the knife edge will get a seal. The groves will have rubber gaskets at the bottom of them and vacuum grease. The chamber will be pressed together with 9 bolts through 5/8" plywood. One on top and one on bottom. The bolt going through the center pipe will probably be made out of acrylic to prevent accidental induction.

The Chamber
https://tinkercad.com/things/0dK88YjHCmB

Outer pipe is missing so you can see the inside of the chamber. (please excuse my poor attempt at drafting, I'm still learning. This is only so you can get an idea of what im talking about.)

Poloidal Magnet:

The center pipe will have a induction coil wrapped around it and powered via a positive DC power source. The poloidal magnet will not only give the chamber a positive charge to repel Ions but will also help direct them back to the center potential. The magnet is not for Plasma Confinement more along the lines of preventing ion conduction through the chamber.

Toroidal Cage Magnet:

The Thesis posted below explains how 2 individuals were able confine electrons in an open torus magnet at 500 gauss with a potential of 10eV. 10eV is nowhere close to what we need for fusion but if it works on a small scale it should work on a larger scale. I will build the Toroid out of coiled copper INSULATED wire and have the 2 electrodes between coils close to the walls of the toroid to prevent electron conduction. The idea here is to have the toroidal magnet just strong enough to contain electrons only and not effect Deuterium Ions, and allow for D2 atoms to pass into the toroid, be stripped to an ION, accelerate down the hill and hopefully fuse. I am hoping to see somewhere around 12.5keV potential but I am afraid because of the design I may need a higher potential to be able to have more fusion chances. Ion injection is probably going to have to be required eventually for higher neutron counts obviously. Containment of electrons over Ions shouldn't be too difficult seeing as electrons weigh so much less than deuterium ions.

Thesis: http://www.ipr.res.in/library/onlineres ... ameerk.pdf

Summary:

This design, I am hoping will help prevent most grid/chamber collisions from electrons and possibly IONS. I am still learning physics, fusion, and electrical engineering so please bear with me. If you have input to be able to make this work PLEASE help haha. I am also to people tearing this thing apart because it won't work, just let me know why please.

Questions:

Does electron keV effect the amount of magnetic force required for confinement? Meaning, Does higher keV require more Gauss for confinement for electrons?

With the electrodes on opposite sides of the toroidal coil, 180 degrees out, is there a chance of arcing to the toroidal coil even if it is shielded? Last thing I want to do is run 15kv through a circuit that is only meant for like 200V.
Last edited by Will Odom on Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Will Odom
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Real name: Will Odom

Re: The Tokawell is Back- But Diffent

Post by Will Odom »

So insomnia got the best of me last night and i started drawing and thinking more on this design. I am thinking of having the Toroidal Coil Negatively charged DC instead of Positively charged. Even with small amounts of Positive charge it may repel already active IONs in the chamber away from the Coil, preventing them from falling into the potential well.

Feedback please. I am about to start ordering stuff to build the chamber and I dont want to get too deep into this design if it fundamentally will not work, granted i guess i could make a homemade Tokamak if thats the case
Will Odom
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Re: The Tokawell is Back- But Different

Post by Will Odom »

I need a little help with calculating magnetic force. Trying not to get so high as to effect deuterium IONs but confine electrons. I have done alot of math but I am at a stand still for calculating force and flux density. Any help would be nice. I am stuck here until i get some units to start wrapping coils.

Deuterium Relativistic mass at 15kve =3.3445237x10^-27 kg
Electron Relativistic mass at 15kve =9.3769863x10^-31 kg

Now im not sure if electron density is going to play a part into having to have a stronger field since technically it will be increasing the total mass inside of the toroidal coil.
Will Odom
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Re: The Tokawell is Back- But Different

Post by Will Odom »

Deuterium being several magnitudes heavier than electrons you would think this would be easy. I keep running into sub-earth magnetic field strengths, which brings up a few questions. Will the earth's magnetic field interfere with the chamber if i am running say something around .31 guass. How impossible that sounds to fabricate.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of ... tic_field)

according to this and my relative weight of my charged particles along with the momentum of each

electron - 6.65767x10^-29 kg-m/s

Deuterium - 4.02249x10^-21 kg-m/s

im starting to believe im going to have to build a weak toroidal coil and hope the ions will have enough energy to escape it
Will Odom
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Re: The Tokawell is Back- But Different

Post by Will Odom »

No responses? Anyone have ANY input on having such a large convergence zone? Will it require more electron injection? I would really like some input from anyone
Frank Sanns
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Re: The Tokawell is Back- But Different

Post by Frank Sanns »

You cannot confine electrons or ions to a significant degree. They are fleeting and quickly combine with neutrals or the walls. Most devices work on an equilibrium where ions are briefly produced and accelerated and collided before they become neutral again or imbed in the wall.

The magnetic field of the Earth is only around 0.5 gauss. It is not strong enough to deflect ions or electrons to any significant degree inside of a chamber. You will need a much stronger field. These days, use NIB permanent magnets where possible because they produce fields much stronger than anything you are going to wind.

The equation for the radius of curvature of a charged particle in a magnetic field is: (mass*velocity)/(charge*magnetic field strength). It is a simple linear formula. Double the mass or the velocity and you double the radius. Double the magnetic field strength and you half the radius.
Achiever's madness; when enough is still not enough. ---FS
We have to stop looking at the world through our physical eyes. The universe is NOT what we see. It is the quantum world that is real. The rest is just an electron illusion. ---FS
Will Odom
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Re: The Tokawell is Back- But Different

Post by Will Odom »

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/51 ... escription


Well if anyone wants to help me atleast give it a try here is my kickstarter
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Paul_Schatzkin
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Re: The Tokawell / Kickstarter

Post by Paul_Schatzkin »

Kickstarter, eh? I'll be curious to see how your project fares there. I've done a few crowd-funding projects (for musicians) and I have some idea how much work it is to get one of those things off the ground – even if you've got a constituency to draw from. Do you have any prospective pledgers lurking in the wings?
Paul Schatzkin, aka "The Perfesser" – Founder and Host of Fusor.net
Author of The Boy Who Invented Television: 2023 Edition – https://amz.run/6ag1
"Fusion is not 20 years in the future; it is 60 years in the past and we missed it."
Will Odom
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Re: The Tokawell is Back- But Different

Post by Will Odom »

nothing yet, did get a guy talking about how he hunts down and destroys perpetual motion machines, helped me out on my setup some. So i may do another launch later once i figure out how to barney style it down some
Will Odom
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Re: The Tokawell is Back- But Different

Post by Will Odom »

by the way i posted a much easier to read description in the kickstarter

Concept:

Having a torus shaped (doughnut) inductor, charged with a direct current to generate a circular magnetic field inside the doughnut. On a separate circuit two solid copper electrodes will enter the coil (doughnut) and shall be charged at 15,000 Volts DC.

This will allow the magnetic field to trap the free electrons moving at 15KeV creating a negative potential. As atoms come into contact with the charged electrons they will be stripped of their electrons becoming ions and eventually creating a plasma. As ions are positively charged they will "fall" towards the center of the negative potential of trapped electrons.

Several things happen at this point. 1. Ions will miss each other and circle in the field creating a poloidal (vertical) magnetic field, until eventually colliding or being thrown out of the doughnut and recirculated back into the doughnut by the poloidal field. 2. They collide but bounce out to be recirculated. 3. FUSION!!

The Chamber will be a vacuumed down torus cylinder made of metal. The metal chamber allows for a poloidal magnetic field and wrapping the chamber vertically with transformer wire will turn the chamber into a large transformer, possibly making it self sustaining and with the added energy of fusion over 100% efficient!!


again i understand there are alot of physics here i am missing out on, i still want to do this because i feel something somewhere is being missed, and not by me
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: The Tokawell is Back- But Different

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Current existing Tokamaks fail for having too unstable of a field for anything except (if lucky) close too/break even and still have innate issues with stability; those achievements took decades to obtain; adding metal electrodes into the plasma is a disaster in all aspects. Reading your first post in this thread tells me you have read very little plasma physics and even less on tokamaks. Your 15,000 volts is far too low even for a fusor much less a Tokamak. The magnetic fields used in Tokamaks are many tens of thousands times more intense than the Earth's field in their plasma and you think the Earth's field even matters? You really need to read up on the field of Tokamaks. You also need to understand the difference between ion energy and applied voltage - you appear confused on that issue, maybe. Also, you can't possibly separate and isolate any significant number of electrons from their ions by any significant distance using magnetic/electric field humans can create - the plasma you (or really, anyone) create will be almost perfectly neutral.
Dan Tibbets
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Re: The Tokawell is Back- But Different

Post by Dan Tibbets »

Actually, the Earth's magnetic field may be contributory in special cases (not a Tokamak). Eric Learner has proposed that the Earth's puny magnetic field imparted a tiny angular momentum in the very early stages of the Theta pinch in his Dense Plasma Focus, and that this might explain some of his results.

To say a plasma has to be almost completely neutral is accurate, but relative. A very small imbalance may be obtainable and significant. The Polywell is an example. The electrons can be maintained in an ~ one part per million excess compared to the ions, and this can result in deep potential wells that drives the ion acceleration. Going to imbalances much above this does quickly become unobtainable. Some sort of electrostatic imbalance in the Field Reversed Configuration may also be used by Tri Alpha Energy to aid their confinement.

Dan Tibbets
Will Odom
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Re: The Tokawell is Back- But Different

Post by Will Odom »

I am not trying to contain plasma with magnetic fields. Mainly generate and confine electrons. 15kv is low yes but for a table top see if it I can even generate a plasma via IEC inside the toroid its enough. Thank you for the feed back guys. Have my glass vac chamber now just hunting a 3/8" sheet of aluminum. Ill post pics in kick starter and here later along with schematics. Im guess im trying to make a toroidal high beta magnet

Edit: also would like to state I have no formal education on this subject whatsoever. So go easy on me lol
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