How to test the quality of heavy water (D2O)?
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- Real name: Harald Consul
How to test the quality of heavy water (D2O)?
Hello!
Qualitity testing the origin material is always an issue. Especially in heavy water, there a different qualities offered (80%, 90%, 95%, 98%, ...).
How can I roughly estimate the quality of heavy water, or even that there is any D2O in the water I get delivered?
Qualitity testing the origin material is always an issue. Especially in heavy water, there a different qualities offered (80%, 90%, 95%, 98%, ...).
How can I roughly estimate the quality of heavy water, or even that there is any D2O in the water I get delivered?
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- Real name: Roberto Ferrari
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Re: How to test the quality of heavy water (D2O)?
Harald
You answer your question.
Different qualities offered have their own spec.
Having doubts of your provider, change it or test it.
Typically % of heavy water is evaluated by IR spectrometry.
See this plot. May be by density measurements also.
You answer your question.
Different qualities offered have their own spec.
Having doubts of your provider, change it or test it.
Typically % of heavy water is evaluated by IR spectrometry.
See this plot. May be by density measurements also.
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- Posts: 94
- Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:01 am
- Real name: Harald Consul
Re: How to test the quality of heavy water (D2O)?
So, if I've understood you right, for a rough test I would weight e.g. 10ml of heavy water in a volume measuring cylinder on a high precision weighting scale. Just one question to that. D2O is how much heavier than H20, exactly?
If I am fortunate to posess an infrared spectrometer, I will use this one for a more precise test, instead.
If I am fortunate to posess an infrared spectrometer, I will use this one for a more precise test, instead.
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Re: How to test the quality of heavy water (D2O)?
googled: 10% heavier.
For precise density measurements use a picnometer.
For precise density measurements use a picnometer.
- Rich Feldman
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Re: How to test the quality of heavy water (D2O)?
Roberto, thank you for posting the infrared spectrum plot. A thing I hadn't seen before. Anybody know if gaseous D2, H2, HD mixtures can easily be assayed by absorbtion or emission spectra?
Here's a warning for conventional density measurements, even with a picnometer.
They say D2O is very hygroscopic -- it readily picks up moisture when exposed to air, changing the isotope ratio.
I think there's a continuous traffic of water molecules passing between the liquid and vapor phases. The net evaporation rate may be small, but it's the difference between two larger numbers.
I've been thinking about ways to precisely measure the speed of sound in small samples of gas. The compressibility difference is negligible; what matters is the ratio between compressibility and gas density.
. ref: http://www.dancingwithwater.com/deuteri ... hat-is-it/, who probably pirated the image.
Here's a warning for conventional density measurements, even with a picnometer.
They say D2O is very hygroscopic -- it readily picks up moisture when exposed to air, changing the isotope ratio.
I think there's a continuous traffic of water molecules passing between the liquid and vapor phases. The net evaporation rate may be small, but it's the difference between two larger numbers.
I've been thinking about ways to precisely measure the speed of sound in small samples of gas. The compressibility difference is negligible; what matters is the ratio between compressibility and gas density.
. ref: http://www.dancingwithwater.com/deuteri ... hat-is-it/, who probably pirated the image.
All models are wrong; some models are useful. -- George Box
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Re: How to test the quality of heavy water (D2O)?
Hi Rich
Thanks for the warning. I had forgotten the hygroscopic property of D2O.
There is a US thesis from the 60's about chromatographic separation of H2, HD and D2 with packed column and low temperature.
Thanks for the warning. I had forgotten the hygroscopic property of D2O.
There is a US thesis from the 60's about chromatographic separation of H2, HD and D2 with packed column and low temperature.
- Rich Feldman
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- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:59 pm
- Real name: Rich Feldman
- Location: Santa Clara County, CA, USA
Re: How to test the quality of heavy water (D2O)?
Oh what fun, infrared spectra of water! Here's an animated gif http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/water_vibr ... ctrum.html, which lists wavenumbers for 12 isotopically different kinds of water.
Here's another reference: https://analusis.edpsciences.org/articl ... heinze.pdf
.
The resonances of free molecules (water vapor) change significantly in the liquid. Internet just taught me about Attenuated Total Reflectance, which allows measurement at frequencies (wave numbers) where the transmission is almost zero after just a dozen wavelengths.
It would be great if somebody here can quantify the amount of H in almost pure D2O, using home made equipment.
This is a good opportunity to bring up the promiscuity of hydrogen atoms in water. We all know that pH = 7.0 comes from the fraction of water molecules that are naturally ionized at 20 °C, at any given instant. Continuous ionization and recombination pay no respect to the original partnering of the atoms.
One section of the reference above begins with "HDO (50 mole % H2O plus 50 mole % D2O; ≈ 50% HDO, ≈ 25% H2O, ≈ 25% D2O)"
That is to say: if you mix equal mole quantities of pure H2O and pure D2O, in equilibrium half of the molecules will be the HDO species.
In natural water with a H/D ratio of 6000, 1/3000 of the molecules are HDO and less than 1 in a million is D2O.
How 'bout commercial heavy water, let's say 99% grade? At any instant, 2% of the molecules are HDO, so that's what we need to measure.
Is the equilibrium concentration of H2O 1% of 1%, or 2% of 2% ? Not a rhetorical question, this is a call for a chemist!
from Here's another reference: https://analusis.edpsciences.org/articl ... heinze.pdf
.
The resonances of free molecules (water vapor) change significantly in the liquid. Internet just taught me about Attenuated Total Reflectance, which allows measurement at frequencies (wave numbers) where the transmission is almost zero after just a dozen wavelengths.
It would be great if somebody here can quantify the amount of H in almost pure D2O, using home made equipment.
This is a good opportunity to bring up the promiscuity of hydrogen atoms in water. We all know that pH = 7.0 comes from the fraction of water molecules that are naturally ionized at 20 °C, at any given instant. Continuous ionization and recombination pay no respect to the original partnering of the atoms.
One section of the reference above begins with "HDO (50 mole % H2O plus 50 mole % D2O; ≈ 50% HDO, ≈ 25% H2O, ≈ 25% D2O)"
That is to say: if you mix equal mole quantities of pure H2O and pure D2O, in equilibrium half of the molecules will be the HDO species.
In natural water with a H/D ratio of 6000, 1/3000 of the molecules are HDO and less than 1 in a million is D2O.
How 'bout commercial heavy water, let's say 99% grade? At any instant, 2% of the molecules are HDO, so that's what we need to measure.
Is the equilibrium concentration of H2O 1% of 1%, or 2% of 2% ? Not a rhetorical question, this is a call for a chemist!
All models are wrong; some models are useful. -- George Box
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- Posts: 94
- Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:01 am
- Real name: Harald Consul
Re: How to test the quality of heavy water (D2O)?
To be precise 1.107 g mL−1 (density of D2O) / 0,9982067 g·cm−3 (density of H2O), both at 20°C.
Thanks for the tip. Picnometer at Ebay about 20 EUR (10 ml Size).Roberto Ferrari wrote: ↑Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:04 pm For precise density measurements use a picnometer.