Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

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Richard Hull
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

Post by Richard Hull »

True, but again, just be prepared to pull the plug. Jon Rosentiel did and so did the Farnsworth people. It is just that simple.

Keep good lab notes before you do the experiment that way if you die, or become a martyr to the cause we can come in, pick up the pieces and collect on all the good ideas.

If an event so deadly as you would prepare for actually happens, you could not afford the requisite shielding to protect yourself anyway. If you got a fission reactor flux, one that could actually be used to generate viable power, six feet of lead and concrete would barely be suitable. Barring this, working at an air range of 1 kilometer from the fusor would be sufficient.

I have a huge book that scientifically documents some exposed core reactor experiments in a forest in Georgia during the 50's and 60's. They pulled a working reactor core out to a remote railroad siding and cranked it up and let fly. Trees were denuded 2000 feet away and all fauna perished, save bugs, for a kilometer. Dirt berms 1000 feet away shielded small plants which were the sole flora in a scene of desolation. 100 feet from the reactor core, an ant hill prospered as worker ants went about there busy way in a 10,000 rad field. It is nice to know that in a total nuclear exchange and holocaust that all life on earth would not be wiped out. Those were the days.......

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Jon Rosenstiel
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

Post by Jon Rosenstiel »

How about using vacuum deposition to apply a thin coating of Pd (or Ni, or Ti) to the cathode? Do-able in the amateur lab. Would certainly be a fraction of the cost of a solid palladium cathode.

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Adam Szendrey
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

Post by Adam Szendrey »

Not a bad idea. Though you can buy tungsten rods in a welder shop. I'm not sure how pure those are, and if there is any coating on it's surface. If it's simply a tungsten rod then it can be used as an electrode (a small piece could be cut from the rod).
Surely palladium is better than tungsten for CF.
I'm not even sure where to get the palladium (for sputtering) from.

Adam
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Brian McDermott
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

Post by Brian McDermott »

Kurt J. Lesker has it under evaporation sources. They sell it in 1/4" x 1/4" cylindrical pellets. Each pellet is about $25. Smaller 1/8" x 1/8" pellets are $10. It is 99.95% pure.
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

Post by Adam Szendrey »

Thanks Brian! Relatively reasonable price. A lot of test targets can be coated with that amount of palladium i guess.

Adam
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

Post by Brian McDermott »

You could also use one of the smaller pellets as a target directly. If you can get the focusing tight enough, a pin-head sized piece could work.
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

Post by Adam Szendrey »

You are absolutely right. That would jump a step (sputtering).But maybe a larger surface is better. I'm not sure.The best way is to try both. Experimenting with tungsten is also a good idea. I think i'll do these experiments once i have my fusor finished, and i have the required gear (the hardest part is neutron detection, i think i'll try to borrow a detector from somewhere). The rest is "on the way".

Adam
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

Post by Adam Szendrey »

Some thoughts running through my head...
There is a runaway effect of CF cells. There is a runaway effect of the fusor (though very rare, and MAY be linked to CF).
Can these runaways be sort of fusion chain reactions? A critical value of a factor (or several factors) is met and off she goes. In case of the fusor the reason of the rarity of runaways may be due to the very rare occurance of such circumstances.
CF cells seem to do something that initiates such an "anomaly".
But what? Maybe ion density?

Adam
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

Post by DavidHansen »

Wow, this is scary stuff. What a crude, uncontrolled experiment!

Which generation of Farnsworth's devices did this runaway occor on? Do you know which machine or any specifics of the machine's design?

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Adam Szendrey
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

Post by Adam Szendrey »

Well i would not call it crude. Or uncontrolled...only if a runaway does occur. To some level it can be controlled. Once you register it, you simply turn the fusor off. Unless you die before you can make a single step, which has never ever happened, as Richard has said, everybody lived to tell.
Though it seems there has been no directed experiments, to actually initiate a runaway on purpose. A palladium cathode (solid, or plated) may proove to be interesting.
Or (and this is what can be expected), nothing extra-ordinary happens...but i don't think i should expect something right away, which happens to one fusor from a hundred once in it's lifetime.
So even if the course is correct, one might not see any positive results, right away.
Doing experiments which are directed to initiate a runaway, are a little bit like storm (tornado) chasing in my mind. With less chanse for a "perfect storm", though much more dangerous.

Adam
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

Post by DavidHansen »

The crude experiment I was referring to was the train car reactor core. I think Farnsworth's devices are beautifully elegant, not crude. The solid palladium (or palladium-plated) target is a good idea. Or, perhaps a spherical palladium screen - recirculation of ions could still occur, so the bombardment would be effectivly greater than if it was a solid sphere.

I still wish to know which of Farnsworth's machines was involved in this spectacular runaway.

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Brian McDermott
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

Post by Brian McDermott »

I think it was the Mark 2 prime, which is the one seen in all the "warp core" images.
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Richard Hull
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

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The mark II prime was Gene Meeks machine and was a T + D machine. It never ran away. The runaway machine was not identified to me though I have surmised that it was the mark II operated by three people present. George Bain, (engineering head), Fred Haak, (Systems Engineer) and Jim Fisher, (technician).

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Adam Szendrey
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

Post by Adam Szendrey »

Richard,

Is it known what material did they use for the cathode in that runaway device? Was it tungsten?

Adam
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Richard Hull
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

Post by Richard Hull »

The grids used by the Farnsworth teams were all stainless steel.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Adam Szendrey
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

Post by Adam Szendrey »

There are at least two facts againts the cold fusion runaway idea.
One is that in "conventional" CF cells there is no neutron count increase (if there is any). But in case of a runaway there is a massive neutron blast.
Second is that i've never heard of CF experiments using stainless steel.
Any ideas?

Adam
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Richard Hull
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

Post by Richard Hull »

I think there are two different runaways here and we are doing an apple and oranges comparison here. CF runaway for the most part appears to be totally aneutronic. Fusor runaway appears to be good old hot fusion doing something weird.

I realize that some here wish to try and boost or insure some sort of runaway by trying CF related materials in a fusor grid. This is laudable, but linking the two forms is out of line just for the moment. CF is found to be a surface effect in a much kinder, gentler environment. Nothing in the fusor is kind or gentle. Still, all this is worth a shot especially to those looking to push the envelope or grab at straws depending on your obervational position.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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Adam Szendrey
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Re: Proposed polarity-reversal experiment

Post by Adam Szendrey »

What i meant was that there are at least two things againts linking the fusor runaways and CF runaways.

Adam
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