Fusion reactors by energy quotient

For posts specifically relating to fusor design, construction, and operation.
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Steven Sesselmann
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Fusion reactors by energy quotient

Post by Steven Sesselmann » Fri May 30, 2008 10:58 pm

Steven's Fusor List...

This list of fusion reactors by energy quotient was started way back in 2008 and was manually maintained by myself, but technology advances and Garrett Young has now started a similar list on a shared Google Spreadsheet, which is simpler to update, so let's continue with Garrett's spreadsheet.

Use the form URL to submit your data.

Form: https://goo.gl/forms/rw6Wm6EMPKzn2fsz1

Results: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1029807507

http://www.gammaspectacular.com/fusion_calculator.html

If you submit a new improved result for the same fusor it will replace the prior entry, and if you build a new fusor and submit new results then it will receive a new entry in addition to the old entry i.e. Fusor III, Fusor IV etc.. The purpose of this list is to establish which reactor designs are more efficient at producing fusion and to create a bit of healthy competition in the design area. The list is not about generating the largest amount of neutrons, it is about optimum design. Do your experiments with scientific diligence and have fun.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  • FUSION REACTORS BY ENERGY QUOTIENT
Rank

-1-
  • 2007 Aug 01
    University Of Wisconsin (not an amateur fusor)
    Std.Farnsworth Fusor
    Reported Q = 1.97E-08
    http://iec.neep.wisc.edu
-2- -3-
-4- -5- -6- -7- -8- -9- -10- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

**Indicates a statistically unreliable measurement of less than 25 bubbles

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Richard Hull
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Re: Fusion reactors by energy quotient

Post by Richard Hull » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:32 pm

You can add mine.

3/24/08 fusor run.
Fusor IV.
Richard Hull
stock fusor


Using your program, it showed the run had a Q= 1.63 X10e -9

~640,000 n/s

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

DaveC
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Re: Fusion reactors by energy quotient

Post by DaveC » Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:00 pm

Steven -


Nice approach. What about adding a column for that actual ITER value of n/sec?

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Frank Sanns
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Re: Fusion reactors by energy quotient

Post by Frank Sanns » Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:27 am

My fusor runs have been from a low Q of 4.87 E -11 for a dirty start up fusor all the way up to 1.46 E-9 for my best run (with asymetric grid systems). Someday I am going to make a pretty inner grid with good symmetry just for a strong neutron run! I resist too much symmetry because it can mask effects that might be otherwise observed.

Frank S.

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Steven Sesselmann
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Re: Fusion reactors by energy quotient

Post by Steven Sesselmann » Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:47 am

Dave,

It is very likely that TIER value and Q values are related, but as far as we know it may not be a simple correlation.

I suggest putting as much information in the reporting post as possible, and keeping the table simple, but with an active link to the originating post.

Steven
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Steven Sesselmann
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Re: Fusion reactors by energy quotient

Post by Steven Sesselmann » Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:51 am

Frank,

Can you edit the post above and give us the name and type of your fusor as well as an approximate run date.

You can use the spread sheet and copy/paste the data.

Steven
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Re: Fusion reactors by energy quotient

Post by DaveC » Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:11 pm

Steven -

I had a reason for suggesting recording the TIER (not ITER, sorry!) value. It helps put the Q value in perspective. Some plasma characteristics are scale invariant, but surface to volume ratios are scale dependent, as well a chamber resonances, (as distinguished from plasma and ion resonances), system impedances and so on.

But your point is well taken, that the table could get less useful if too much data is presented.... Further, it's your table.

Dave Cooper

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Re: Fusion reactors by energy quotient

Post by Wilfried Heil » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:09 pm

We start out with power levels and neutron numbers to calculate Q, so for calculating TIER you can do the same in reverse:

TIER [n/s] = Q * P [J/s, electric] * 8.55E+11 [n/J, fusion]

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Re: Fusion reactors by energy quotient

Post by JohnCuthbert » Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:05 pm

Perhaps I'm just in a funny mood but I wonder if there's any comparable data for things like "JET"?
If so it might be interesting to make the comparison.

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Richard Hull
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Re: Fusion reactors by energy quotient

Post by Richard Hull » Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:55 pm

I am sure that somewhere down in the bowels of now unemployed JET engineers you will find someone who ran or could run honest energy numbers where the infrastrure and support energy needed to operate JET would be brought into subtraction against the actual computed fusion energy release during the scant few seconds it ran on its best day.

With this said, We are just using the input energy to the plasma as well in our calcs. To be able to decry JET, we should also include out vacuum pump system energy, etc. However, I doubt if it would more than halve our efficiency.

If Jet had a similar loss to us in this respect, that would reduce their break even claim to only 50% efficient.

You may forever rest assured that the official JET press release energy calculation guys would seek to just insulate the hell outta' anyone with full access to the real ancillary support energy figures from coming forward with honest numbers.

They might have a stooge who will come out of the rear of the crowd and supply a lump figure for ancillary support, but never will he have a listing, a tabulation for close examination. The public just does not NEED to know how energy bleeds are handled at such core levels.

No one knows how they compute for the press releases. I doubt that there is a precise, well delineated tabulation available to the public.

I, like you, would love to be able to see how they run the numbers.

I just wish we could "go figure"

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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