Primer Field Bowl Magnets?

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Joshua Hess
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Primer Field Bowl Magnets?

Post by Joshua Hess »

Hey guys,
I recently stumbled on some youtube videos that go over a new phenomenally fascinating magnet field shape. One of the demonstrations in the video shows how these bowl magnets form a perfect sphere of plasma. It seems that these magnets accurately reproduce the fields occurring in nature from the atom all the way up to our sun and galaxies. I am currently trying to get my hands on some of these high temperature bowl magnets for my own experimentation (will have posts on that). Anyway, let me know what you guys think of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EPlyiW-xGI
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Liam David
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Re: Primer Field Bowl Magnets?

Post by Liam David »

It is an interesting theory, but I have a of couple questions. 1: What forms these magnetic fields? 2: If these fields are really there, then why haven't we detected them?

The thing I am interested in is the bowl magnets' potential in IEC reactors. Could these bowl magnetic fields be used in an IEC fusor in or around the inner grid to increase efficiency? Just throwing an idea out there.
-Liam David

Where are you thinking about getting the magnets from? I've searched around the internet and haven't found anything like them.
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Chris Bradley
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Re: Primer Field Bowl Magnets?

Post by Chris Bradley »

I skimmed the video and saw nothing at all remarkable about the plasma generated, which I say following some years of me doing my own magnetic plasma experiments.

The only things I would mention is firstly the chap walking around such a large glass chamber is really not comprehending the danger he is putting himself in, which raises the question to me as to whether he's simply 'plasma-struck', as many seem to be at their first sight of that pretty, smooth, dancing ephemeral glow. I would be especially concerned because he has put clamping magnets directly onto the glass, which will therefore readily attract electron beams and destroy the chamber ... and him with it.

Secondly, 70kW applied was mentioned. I do not believe for a second that is remotely a 70kV acceleration voltage. Things shift towards becoming very dark and very 'ultraviolet' at such high potentials, and if they were really seeing those sorts of colours out of a 70kV-excited plasma then the currents would be enormous and many kWs of power would be going in, with much heating of just about everything in there. I would hazard a guess that they have a low current 70kV power supply and have connected it up and called it '70kV', as often we see newbs here do.

Could there be a new theory of magnetic field shape? Well, actually, the near field induction pattern from any electromagnetic source is indeed very complex. But one must understand the differences between near and far field characteristics. Maybe the theory put forward in the video is right and near field pattern is like that. Still makes no difference to the macroscopic far fields we work with. It is a hypothesis for far more academic minds than engages interest here. Even I'm struggling to find an interest in such an assertion (and it doesn't take much to get me interested in an irrelevant minutia!!).

Any permanent magnet cannot, alone, confine a plasma without creating field lines that will draw the plasma down onto the magnet. There is a part of the video that shows just this (and makes a hair-brained reference to the Red Square Nebula (there is also a Red Rectangular Nebula too, maybe they should comment on that somehow as well!?)).

Magnetic plasma confinement generally hinges on using solenoid fields, which cannot be created by permanent magnets. Any device using permanent magnets to confine plasma or ions must also engage other forces, principally electric field forces, to keep the charged particles away from physical structures. However, in general, as soon as you start using an electric field to do anything with plasma, the maximum plasma density drops so far it will never produce any 'break-even' fusion power, because well-ionised plasmas shield electric fields unless you do some very special things like using high frequency electric fields.

Anyhow, the plasma shown looks very unremarkable to me.
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Joshua Hess
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Re: Primer Field Bowl Magnets?

Post by Joshua Hess »

Wow Chris, that was quite an extensive response lol. I completely hear what you are saying about the permanent magnetic fields though. I just thought that this was a unique way to confine the plasma in a ball without the use of any grids. Although this might not be completely ideal for fusion applications I think that it should be experimented with. If nothing else, it could be used for other spin off fusion applications (plasma cleaning, sputtering, etc).

Liam, to my understanding, in nature the fields are still formed by their respected processes. For example, the sun produces its magnetic field from the movement of the plasma which it is made up of. I am no astro or quantum physicist so I can't tell you the exact details on the magnetic field formation of galaxies or atoms but they all have their processes. According to the theory, It's not that we haven't detected the fields, it's that we have detected them wrongly. These fields look the same as a typical bar magnet on the outer fields as demonstrated in the video, but it is in the middle, between the bowls that it is different. Absolutely! That is why I posted this to see what people think. Correct me if I'm wrong but the more confined the plasma is, the higher the fusion rate is. It would seem that this should be beneficial to the fusion process. I am currently trying to contact the creator of those videos to see if he can sell me some or give me plans to manufacture some. I will keep you updated in regards to that.
Last edited by Joshua Hess on Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Chris Bradley
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Re: Primer Field Bowl Magnets?

Post by Chris Bradley »

s28400 wrote: I just thought that this did was a unique way to confine the plasma in a ball without the use of any grids.
You can never do this with permanent magnets. The lines of flux (let us just say, in this context, 'the macroscopic phenomena of lines of flux') always pass through the magnets, so the plasma will always 'escape' along those lines until they meet the magnet, whereupon the plasma is cooled and so can never reach high ionisation and temperature.
Mitchell Barker
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Re: Primer Field Bowl Magnets?

Post by Mitchell Barker »

A magnetic field is produced by the matter and energy that it surrounds. The shape and nature of the particular mass determines the shape of the magnetic field. It has been proven that the magnetic field of the Earth is similar to that of a bar magnet. However, this does not mean there is a giant bar magnet inside the Earth, rather, simply that two symmetrically shaped magnetic objects, though very different in size, can have similarly shaped magnetic fields.
In this video, the narrator states that, “. . . a critical mistake was made by scientists when it was assumed that the magnetic fields emanating from matter, such as atoms, was due to a simple bar shaped magnetic field within the atom.” This is an incorrect statement. The assumption is not that there is a “bar shaped” magnetic field within atoms, rather, that atoms have a magnetic field similar to that of a bar magnet or any symmetrically shaped magnetic object, for that matter.
The claim here is that the magnetic fields of atoms and stellar bodies are not shaped like that of a bar magnet, but they are shaped like the bowl shaped magnets. This claim is totally preposterous, since these bowl shaped magnets are not magnetic fields within themselves. They are simply BOWL SHAPED MAGNETS producing their own unique magnetic field, which ironically is somewhat similar to that of a bar magnet.
The really funny thing is that the shape and contour of the bowls themselves is actually very similar to that of a normal magnetic field, which is why superimposing images of the shape of the bowls over images of celestial bodies seems so convincing. Another reason is because lots of things in space are ROUND!!! At one point during the video, he shows how these “bowl shaped magnetic fields” can have different shapes and proportions. This is followed by rows and columns of images of galaxies that appear to have similarly different shapes and proportions. RIDICULOUS!!! They are mostly images of spiral galaxies taken at different angles, giving the illusion of different shapes and sizes!
I do not enjoy criticizing people or pointing out their mistakes, but this needs to be pointed out. At most what has been accomplished here is the invention of a neat shaped magnet and possibly a new tool for studying magnetism. However, this is not some new scientific revelation about the nature of matter and energy, as is stated, and the claims made here are completely preposterous.
Andrew Seltzman
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Re: Primer Field Bowl Magnets?

Post by Andrew Seltzman »

Hi MitchyK, please read the forum rules, you must have your real name listed and post in the introduction section.

As for the experiment, what we are seeing here is a combination of effects that can be well explained be several existing concepts:

birkeland terrella experiment:
A single dipole magnet in a vacuum that is biased will create artificial van-allen belts of plasma around it's equatorial plains(the rings) as well as particle motion along the field lines that terminate near the poles(aurora effects). Terrellas were first used in the early 1900 to model near earth plasma effects and were responsible for some of the first experimental confirmation of the van allen belts and northern lights.
https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/jpa-00255564/document

The penning ion source:
Two dipole magnets placed together with a biased electrode electrode in the center will trap a plasma between the poles, a fraction will escape through the holes in in the end plates(the "jets").
Andrew Seltzman
www.rtftechnologies.org
Mitchell Barker
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Re: Primer Field Bowl Magnets?

Post by Mitchell Barker »

Andrew, Thanks for pointing that out. Of course, I did not read the rules. I did not see a way to correct my username. My name is Mitchell Barker. My post was in reference to this particular video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DunnOlkjQX0&t=2766s
My argument is against the claim that these bowl shaped magnets are really anything more than just bowl shaped magnets. I am not referring to the actual results of the experiments, rather the outlandish assumptions about the very nature of matter and energy that this man incorrectly deduces from his findings. Please view the video and let me know what you think about it.
PS. If there is no way to correct my user info on this site, I will gladly create a proper profile once this one is deleted.
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Richard Hull
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Re: Primer Field Bowl Magnets?

Post by Richard Hull »

There is a lot to see here.... just like at the movies. Awe inspiring, entertaining, fabulous images. In the end, all are just a glow discharge, as Chris and others have and will note. There is nothing new here beyond fun with magnets and plasma. Any real money and time spent in this effort is in the 3 one hour video manufacture, itself, and the patent process.

Particularly noticable are the massive claims related to voltages and energies involved. The claims are not put forth with detailed reports allowing critical review based on submitted details. As always, they are just protecting their patent rights by not going into depth.

Give this enough time and it will fade, like so many other efforts at revolutonary claims and announcements.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Rex Allers
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Re: Primer Field Bowl Magnets?

Post by Rex Allers »

Username:
You can change the username associated with your account and not break anything.

I first joined several years back, before your real full name was a requirement. I was originally 'rexa'. I was worried that changing my username would create a new account or break links to my earlier posts. I took a chance and changed it. It didn't break anything. My old posts now showed up under my new username.

Here's how... You must be logged in. Click 'User Control Panel' at the top of the page, then Profile -- 'Edit account settings'. The Username field is at the top. If you change it, that becomes your new ID for logging in too.

Also, I tried a few months back, to get members to add some kind of general 'Location' in their profile. A few did add this info, but most ignored my crusade. I still think it is a good idea and provides some helpful context information when reading about things people are posting. You should be able to see my location in the sidebar associated with my posts.

If you want to add a location, that field is part of the 'Edit profile' section. On that page, there is also a 'Real name' field, at the bottom. You can enter that too, but it is redundant if your Username is your real name.
Rex Allers
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