What will happen if the fusor run in 170kV?

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J Y Zhang
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What will happen if the fusor run in 170kV?

Post by J Y Zhang »

Hi all,
One of my net friend is making a fusor in this summer holiday. He decides to run this fusor in 140KV to 170KV,with about 15ma. I am worried about that...What Will Happen? A very dangrous radiation? Or it is Safe?
Thanks,
ZhangJy
Jerry Biehler
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Re: What will happen if the fusor run in 170kV?

Post by Jerry Biehler »

Good luck with that. You could probably have to submerge the whole thing in mineral oil to insulate it and a good amount of lead to stop the x-rays.
J Y Zhang
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Re: What will happen if the fusor run in 170kV?

Post by J Y Zhang »

Thanks Jerry,
And one of my physics book says, the Coulomb Barrier is only about 140keV. If we run the fusor in 170kV, will there be a quite strong neutron flow?
ZhangJy
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Richard Hull
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Re: What will happen if the fusor run in 170kV?

Post by Richard Hull »

A first time user could never run a simple fusor at 170kv 15ma. Since there would be no neutrons at that level, as it could not run there, on the way up, x-radiation would be lethal.

A ridiculous goal that could not be reached with a simple fusor and normal materials. Big ideas, at the extreme, always die on the vine here.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
J Y Zhang
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Re: What will happen if the fusor run in 170kV?

Post by J Y Zhang »

Richard Hull wrote:A first time user could never run a simple fusor at 170kv 15ma. Since there would be no neutrons at that level, as it could not run there, on the way up, x-radiation would be lethal.

A ridiculous goal that could not be reached with a simple fusor and normal materials. Big ideas, at the extreme, always die on the vine here.

Richard Hull
Why there would be no neutrons at that level?
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Richard Hull
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Re: What will happen if the fusor run in 170kV?

Post by Richard Hull »

The simple fusor works off pressure and a delicate balance in glow discharge. It would be difficult to pour almost 2500 watts into any grid system without melting the grid. At 170kv, the pressure would have to be greatly reduced to allow for a glow discharge. At that voltage, a lower pressure of gas would be needed and the glow might not sustain without modification of the system in some fashion yielding a device different from the simple fusor. Fusion would be possible, of course, in a modified system.

Regardless, such a system from a first timer is rather unlikely, though not impossible. The X-radiation from anything operating at this level would lethal. We see these folks float in here all the time. They plan on making a meter diameter fusor or using incredible voltages in a simple fusor when they have no experience with vacuum or high voltage. One even came here with the idea to use it in Rocket propulsion and many arrive thinking they can get usable energy out of the device. It all sounds grand and sounding grand is about all we ever hear before they are gone, never to be heard from again.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
J Y Zhang
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Re: What will happen if the fusor run in 170kV?

Post by J Y Zhang »

Thanks Richard and Jerry :)
I've told your opinions to him. And he said he believes that he's able to run the fusor safely...Thanks for your advices and good luck to him.
Zhangjy
David Kunkle
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Re: What will happen if the fusor run in 170kV?

Post by David Kunkle »

OK, now I have to ask since none of that seemed to scare your friend. What experience and what equipment does your friend have?
If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.

Ernest Rutherford
J Y Zhang
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Re: What will happen if the fusor run in 170kV?

Post by J Y Zhang »

I don't know, either. He decides to run it in about 0.06pa, with a ZVS power, that's all I know.
John Futter
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Re: What will happen if the fusor run in 170kV?

Post by John Futter »

Zhang
I think your friend will have much trouble at that vacuum and voltage
I describe what I had to do here
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9534
without an acceleration section I had light up on residual chamber gas at 0.0002pa at 85kV and an x-ray flux of 300msv @15mA
hence the filled cinder block shielding
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Dennis P Brown
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Re: What will happen if the fusor run in 170kV?

Post by Dennis P Brown »

Just hope he understands how to make good shielding (for himself and others who may be near if this isn't in a proper lab) and has proper radiation (read x-ray) detection equipment.
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Re: What will happen if the fusor run in 170kV?

Post by RealBorg »

Proper shielding of the high energy x-rays would be an absolute necessity.
This means not only shielding the direct path between the operator and the device as most people here do, he also needs shield against x-rays scattered back from the walls above and behind the fusor. He should really learn about radiation protection before trying to operate a fusor at these levels.

Tom
J Y Zhang
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Re: What will happen if the fusor run in 170kV?

Post by J Y Zhang »

hi,John
I'll show it to him. Another question,where did you buy your Pressure gauge? I've looked for Pressure gauge which can measure 10^-5pa.
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Bob Reite
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Re: What will happen if the fusor run in 170kV?

Post by Bob Reite »

I have observed backscatter from my system if operated at 50 KV (still just doing air, once I get off the computer it will be back to building the gas handling system). I'm probably going to have to give up on the mirror route and use a video camera (found a "cube camera" that I forgot that I had) and totally shield the viewport area to get rid of the backscatter.
The more reactive the materials, the more spectacular the failures.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
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Re: What will happen if the fusor run in 170kV?

Post by John Futter »

Zhang
just look for cold cathode ionisation gauges on ebay there are plenty there
Edwards
Phillips Granville
Varian
Leybold
Dynavac
10^-5 Pa = around 10^7millibar
all make these
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