Binding energy
- Carl Willis
- Posts: 2841
- Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 7:33 pm
- Real name: Carl Willis
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
- Contact:
Re: Binding energy
The reaction you mentioned earlier involved the disintegration of a deuteron into unbound nucleons. The H2(p,g)He-3 reaction is a different reaction, one that results in a bound nucleus (He-3). This reaction is exothermic and can in theory happen with protons of any energy. The reaction's cross section is far smaller than DD fusion, however.
-Carl
-Carl
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:30 pm
- Real name:
Re: Binding energy
If the losses from non collisions is related to mean free path, if you started at 1MeV/40kv = 25000, couldn't you raise the pressure in the fuser by 25000, using this site http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... enfre.html. Taking it to extreme, having the pressure match the diameter of the vessel, with the voltage matched.....
I was thinking about releasing neutrons through disintegration and maybe have 3H made reaction with 2H
Thanks
I was thinking about releasing neutrons through disintegration and maybe have 3H made reaction with 2H
Thanks
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:30 pm
- Real name:
Re: Binding energy
I was trying to make a neutron source, I think 1.112MeV is doable but 2.224MeV might be two high. Would the disintegration happen with the single nucleons or would it be 2.22.
- Carl Willis
- Posts: 2841
- Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 7:33 pm
- Real name: Carl Willis
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
- Contact:
Re: Binding energy
I don't think MeV protons are, in a word, "doable" in realistic hobby scenarios. At the least, proposals about using MeV beam energies aren't credible unless one has established a unique arrangement to borrow time on an accelerator, or already possesses the rare and enviable facility and technical background to accommodate such a project.
As I said earlier, you could not disintegrate deuterons with 2.22-MeV protons. A photon, say from radioactive decay of radium, can disintegrate the deuteron at about 2.22 MeV since the kinematic constraints caused by conservation of energy and momentum can be simultaneously satisfied at lower energies than with the proton. You need about 3 MeV to do this reaction with incident protons, and this reaction will compete with the aneutronic radiative capture (p,g) reaction that has also been mentioned.
Hobbyists thinking seriously about the cheapest, fastest, most effective way to get neutrons pretty much always come home to DD fusion. It is THE time-honored recipe. To consider something else, particularly an approach that requires an MeV beam, pretty much begs for some uniquely-justifying circumstances.
-Carl
As I said earlier, you could not disintegrate deuterons with 2.22-MeV protons. A photon, say from radioactive decay of radium, can disintegrate the deuteron at about 2.22 MeV since the kinematic constraints caused by conservation of energy and momentum can be simultaneously satisfied at lower energies than with the proton. You need about 3 MeV to do this reaction with incident protons, and this reaction will compete with the aneutronic radiative capture (p,g) reaction that has also been mentioned.
Hobbyists thinking seriously about the cheapest, fastest, most effective way to get neutrons pretty much always come home to DD fusion. It is THE time-honored recipe. To consider something else, particularly an approach that requires an MeV beam, pretty much begs for some uniquely-justifying circumstances.
-Carl
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:30 pm
- Real name:
Re: Binding energy
Sure its a long way from 100kv to 1000kv. I still don't understand if the energy level is reached, if not from a proton then gamma ray, why it would be different. Would it be 2.22MeV or 1.11MeV which is the binding energy of one nucleons.
Thanks
Thanks
- Carl Willis
- Posts: 2841
- Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 7:33 pm
- Real name: Carl Willis
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
- Contact:
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:30 pm
- Real name:
Re: Binding energy
Thanks Read that page found this link http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... 5w.html#c1 , would it be 2.224 + rest mass of proton(934kev i think)?
On that link it says 1.29 will change a proton to a neutron, just curious if you had a 1cm spark gap with hydrogen in the middle and 1.5MV supply, would that accelerate the proton and change it to a neutron.
On that link it says 1.29 will change a proton to a neutron, just curious if you had a 1cm spark gap with hydrogen in the middle and 1.5MV supply, would that accelerate the proton and change it to a neutron.
- Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 14992
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: Binding energy
No, it would not.
Richard Hull
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:30 pm
- Real name:
Re: Binding energy
Would the binding energy disintegration happen once its accelerated to 2.22MeV or would it happen when it collides with another atom?
If say a marx charged up two electrodes 1cm apart, in close to vacuum, with D2 in the middle would that accelerate electrons one way, and protons the other way?
With two electrode 1cm apart, you should only loss 30kv for the e-feild, how would you stop a cw or marx from not reaching there full voltage, wouldn't they top out at 30kv.
Thanks
If say a marx charged up two electrodes 1cm apart, in close to vacuum, with D2 in the middle would that accelerate electrons one way, and protons the other way?
With two electrode 1cm apart, you should only loss 30kv for the e-feild, how would you stop a cw or marx from not reaching there full voltage, wouldn't they top out at 30kv.
Thanks
- Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 14992
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: Binding energy
You'll not beat "the system" clutching at weak straws. Many, many before you have already come down this path with nothing to show at the end.
So far, ideas...Many.......Results, zero.
Only results feed th' bulldog.
Richard Hull
So far, ideas...Many.......Results, zero.
Only results feed th' bulldog.
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:30 pm
- Real name:
Re: Binding energy
I've got some results http://4hv.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum ... php?147892 , after I started posting here.
- Carl Willis
- Posts: 2841
- Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 7:33 pm
- Real name: Carl Willis
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
- Contact:
Re: Binding energy
This thread is losing focus.
The original subject is a theory matter and belongs in this forum, but questions about Marx generators and pumps and so on should be put in the appropriate experimental forums. Also, if you want to discuss a project on this site, I would appreciate it if you would describe that project in its own thread, rather than just by reference to discussions over at 4HV.
To answer your last question about energetics in the breakup of the deuteron, think of the nucleus as a mechanical system of two magnetized steel balls stuck together that you want to take apart. You can throw the system of two balls, but they won't break apart until they hit something (possibly a third ball, representing another nucleon). Kinetic energy is relative--you define a reference frame, and then the velocity of the nucleus in that frame determines its kinetic energy in that frame. A deuteron could have 1, 10, 100, etc. MeV of kinetic energy depending on the observer, but whether or not it is capable of being taken apart in a collision depends only on relative velocity with respect to the other body in the collision.
-Carl
The original subject is a theory matter and belongs in this forum, but questions about Marx generators and pumps and so on should be put in the appropriate experimental forums. Also, if you want to discuss a project on this site, I would appreciate it if you would describe that project in its own thread, rather than just by reference to discussions over at 4HV.
To answer your last question about energetics in the breakup of the deuteron, think of the nucleus as a mechanical system of two magnetized steel balls stuck together that you want to take apart. You can throw the system of two balls, but they won't break apart until they hit something (possibly a third ball, representing another nucleon). Kinetic energy is relative--you define a reference frame, and then the velocity of the nucleus in that frame determines its kinetic energy in that frame. A deuteron could have 1, 10, 100, etc. MeV of kinetic energy depending on the observer, but whether or not it is capable of being taken apart in a collision depends only on relative velocity with respect to the other body in the collision.
-Carl
- Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 14992
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: Binding energy
To follow up on Carl. If you are looking for a pump, put that request in the trading post as a wanted item, since that is where everyone goes to buy and sell or make requests for information on hardware and other instruments.
Richard Hull
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment